Continuing support group for those affected by someone else's drinking

[pointythings]

Our current thread is nearly full, and it's too valuable to lose in the mists of time, so this is thread 2. Come here if you are struggling with a loved one's drinking - partner, parent, child, friend, there's support for you here no matter which person in your life is struggling with the drink and having an adverse impact on you. The women on here have all been there or are still going through it. We support and advise each other, we don't judge, we listen.

Original thread here to refer back to: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/4581221-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking

@shewillneverstop I am so sorry that was your childhood!

I hope you are proud of the way you have found sobriety. That is beyond impressive, there are no words.

I think your feelings towards your mother are akin to trauma bonding and survivor guilt. You got out (with a hell of a lot of hard work) and she didn't. Did you have any professional support in your journey to sobriety? Because I think you would benefit from some help in finding your boundaries with her. It's understandable that you want to support her, but you are also entitled to look after yourself and live your own life. Your trauma runs deep, and you would benefit from talking to someone.

Meanwhile, try to recognise the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) when it hits and challenge those thoughts. You do not actually owe your mother anything.

@pointythings Thank you for your reply ''I hope you are proud of the way you have found sobriety. That is beyond impressive, there are no words.''

I would be proud and say well done to someone else (and mean it) but to myself I think 'you were the useless idiot that got yourself into that position to begin with' that is what I feel, but I know that is not true. And yes it took a huge amount of very hard work. Not the physical side or the urges (which thankfully left long ago). The dealing with the demons that lie under it all

I have been seeing a counsellor since November, it is through a charity for adults who were abused as children. She says it is not surprising at all that I ended up with alcohol addiction issues. And that I should be proud of my resilience to come through it. There is so much other trauma as well which she says I am too unemotional about. But that's because I still can't see that it does matter, because it only happened to me. A lot of this was either directly or indirectly linked to my mothers drinking, along with my step dad's drinking.

It's hard to explain what it is like to have always felt worthless, if you didn't actually know you felt worthless. I felt what I thought was 'normal' I am only now realising a lot most of it was not normal. The being left by her, for her to come back and forth into my life periodically just makes you feel like your not worth someone staying around for. Then when I lived with her and started to rebel, probably in natural ways the teens do, but also against what it was like to live there I was told I was dramatic. I was also far too ashamed though to tell people the full truth.

She just always has to be the victim. She does not hold herself accountable for anything that has happened in her life. Yes some bad things have happened, my father abandoned her and me. But she didn't need to let that take over the narrative for her whole life.

She only speaks about herself too, my husband won't really speak to her anymore and she hasn't noticed.

I am really glad you are in therapy. Don't cut that short, if you can afford to keep going. You deserve to feel that the abuse your mother heaped on you matters, because you matter. Keep working at it; you will also be cementing your recovery by doing so.

Thank you. I have been doing SMART recovery for myself but think I will start the family and friend ones too. I think I need to know how to love her, but not be responsible for her

Why devastated ?
Yes to begin with dd wanted to stay with her dad. But equally she has seen his behaviour over the months and doesn’t like what she sees /hears /smells

if you know for sure he’s drinking excessively when having the kids - you need to stop the overnights so that they are safe and protected

Yes, that is exactly it. You can love someone and still protect yourself. You can love without enabling. Personally I think that you are amazing - you have had a tough road to recovery and yet here you are, and you have a profound level of insight.

I think doing Family and Friends is a very good idea, it will give you all the pieces of the puzzle where they should be. And do keep posting here if you think it's helpful - I also think you will have good advice to give the rest of us because you have walked the road of addiction and are coming out on the other side.

@shewillneverstop you have done incredibly well to break the cycle. It must have taken massive strength. Keep up the counselling as it will remind you that you were a child who was failed terribly. It would be perfectly natural if deep down you are hoping she'll one day wake up and realise she has been a terrible mother, but the sad reality is that she probably won't change and she will continue to focus on her own wants and needs. It's likely she'll never be able to give you what you deserve. So love her but keep an emotional distance. She must take responsibility for her own life and if she continues to make bad choices, the consequences need to be hers to bear.

I am not a mum, I'm a man but my wife is an alcoholic with mental health problems.
After a crisis she tried drying out cold-turkey and ended up in hospital. but came out determined to continue without alcohol.
Unfortunately after 4 weeks she had a bad night last night and consumed two beers. This morning she asked me to get her a small bottle of whisky from the shop (she is disabled with arthritis and cannot shop for herself).
After arguing, I did get her the whisky.
(For context I am her full time carer, butler, chauffer, shopper etc)
I try to rationalise it saying it is her decision, and if she could walk she would get it herself but of course I feel guilt.
She will talk to doctors, Turning Point etc regarding her alcoholism but she will NOT talk about her mental problems (Intrusive voices, thoughts, irrational fears about our daughter).
In my opinion, her mental health is the fundamental problem and if she would engage with the doctors and other help available, she would have less need for alcohol but she absolutely distrusts the medical establishment 'because they've put me away twice'.
I would like to know if anyone can suggest any online support groups, forums etc that I would find useful. I would prefer online support rather than phone calls or face-to-face meetings.
Any suggestions?

Hi all. I don't think I've posted much on this thread but I did on the last one. I haven't been here for a while.

Brief synopsis: Alcoholic mother, decades of it, increasingly bad, end stage, really. I posted on here on a day last summer, at my wits end, basically saying I wished it would all end. It did. She killed herself a few hours later. Typing that out makes it sound heavier than it feels. I'm still a bit numb and don't think the shock will ever fully wear off.

I've been re-reading my posts here from the last year. I had forgotten how tormented I felt. I wish it hadn't happened... yet I certainly don't wish things had stayed the same. We're all still adjusting to the peace. Weirdly, my posts after it happened sound a lot more insightful and gracious than I feel right now.

I have had times when I've felt sympathy for her, but honestly, not all that much. Waiting on inquest (still) and also will get hold of mental health medical records, as I think they might help me fill in some gaps.

I think I'm doing ok. I haven't 'crashed' at any point. I took a couple of months off as I was struggling to deal with stress at work. But otherwise good. I even quit smoking, something I could not do while she was alive. I haven't done any therapy. I kind of don't want to get into it. I can't be arsed. I think any child of an alcoholic will agree, it's such a fucking lot. I quietly feel a little damaged, but also I just want to move forward. My life is very small and quiet right now but maybe I can start pushing at the edges soon.

Not really sure why I am posting! I just wanted to say hello. And also, much love to everyone here, especially those still trapped in the daily nightmare.

Hi and welcome, you're in the right place.

For online support, both Al-Anon and SMART Family and Friends do online meetings. Al-Anon is a spinoff from AA and so it does come with some religion/spiritual aspects. SMART is fully secular and based on CBT principles, so.may be a better fit for you.

One thing I will say, and it's going to sound harsh: you do nit have to procure her booze. She isn't allowed to emotionally blackmail you into that. If she wants it, she can order it online and pay for it herself, and so take responsibility for her CHOICE to drink* *again. You do not have to be complicit.

This thread is a safe place for you to vent and seek help. Post if you need us, we're listening.

Hi @amlie8 it's really good to hear from you again. Anniversaries are always the worst - tomorrow is actually the anniversary of the day I got The Call about my late husband in 2018. It never goes unmarked. But I've got a friend staying, some annual leave, things planned and it will be OK. For you, since it's your first, it's tougher. However, you have so much insight and wisdom that I know you will get through this. I don't think it's a bad thing that you have been inside your shell a bit. We all need recovery time when life batters us. And if you feel ready to push things a bit, go and do it! I hope you find things that bring you a little joy and some healing.

@amlie8 'Weirdly, my posts after it happened sound a lot more insightful and gracious than I feel right now.' I remember relief was one of my strongest feelings at first after my DH's death and that probably allowed me to be kinder and more understanding in my immediate responses. I am glad of that now. The anger came slightly later when the memories of what he'd put us through kept bubbling to the surface. As for recovery time, to be honest all these years later I still feel quietly damaged but it doesn't prevent me from living a happy life.

Welcome @Marshall1a - I was going to write a long spiel after reading your post - but then Read replies after including @pointythings

What I was going to say but now shorter is the same

you do not need to buy her drink. You are enabling her - she is blackmailing you

as @pointythings said - if she wants it she can order it online and get undelivered

how dare she make you buy it. There is no way I would be buying ex dh booze

if he wanted it he would buy it

same goes for your wife

im sorry she has put you in that position. But you can say no

I’m very concerned about a friend. She’s always been a drinker but over the last year it seems to have progressed. She is never without a water bottle with alcohol in it so is always drunk. Constantly falling over, forgetting conversations part way through, falling asleep in restaurants. Last week an airline refused to let her board her flight. She lives with her partner but they lead separate lives, separate bedrooms etc. I’m assuming she stays drunk constantly to avoid withdrawals? From what I’ve read, this is now late stage alcoholism. She’s in her early 50s so I think she needs medial help before it’s too late. But she seems to be in denial about how bad things are.

Unfortunately there is absolutely nothing you can do. The hardest thing about having an addict in your life is that you have to accep being absolutely powerless to help their addiction. They are the only people who can make the decision to seek help and stop, and often they don't.

For your own sake, you should think about how much time you want to spend with her; if being around her causes you stress and concern, you are allowed to step back. And if she asks you why, you are allowed to be honest.

@Marshall1a al-anon or SMART Recovery family and friends - I prefer SMART as it is really about yourself and your own goals.

In terms of boundaries I live with a very close friend who can go long periods without drinking (& I am actually hopeful is now in recovery) but when he does drink goes into uncontrollable drinking which only ends via a hospital detox. He risks his life every time he drinks.

When he is on a bender I refuse to get him alcohol. He can order beers or cider to the door and he has to fetch them from the delivery man himself. I will not accept them. He is welcome to drink wine or spirits but not in my house. This is because with both of those he will drink himself into a level of unconsciousness that I am not comfortable with (life threatening) and top himself up. On beer or cider he can’t function in any normal way but he can hold a conversation.

I have had to learn very quickly. Initially I was enabling and co-dependent. I do find it hard to hold my boundaries sometimes without becoming a bitch or going too far - this is someone I care a great deal about - but understanding more about enabling, co-dependency and my own ‘rights’ has helped me. And hopefully will support him in recovery. There does need to be consequences for behaviour.

Thank you. Does the drinking vodka constantly from a water bottle mean she’s at end stage alcoholism?

Ive seen friends who have been binge drinkers sort themselves out but I’ve never met anyone who drinks constantly before.

Shes about to lose her job and she’s also having an affair. If her partner finds out about the affair I think she will end up homeless because he owns the house they live in (kids are grown up and moved out). They aren’t married, so I doubt she has any right to stay there.

Constant drinking means she is so deeply addicted that she is not able to ever be sober. Hoever, end stage alcoholism is more about the state of a person's health than about how and how much they are drinking, and it is often impossible to tell from someone's appearance how bad things are. The human body is an amazing thing; it takes so much punishment and just keeps on going. It is possible to keep having normal liver function tests (and alcoholics will use these as evidence that here isn't a problem, my late husband did!) until the moment the liver has had too much, and then deterioration and serious illness arrives very rapidly. It's the same with alcohol related heart disease, which is what killed my husband. It's not at all unusual for very little to be outwardly visible until you're into the last year or so.

She is currently spiraling into the consequences of her addiction. It's likely that her affair partner is also an alcoholic, or at the very least is enabling her. But if she does lose everything, there is still very little you can do. Don't be drawn into enabling her.

Or pancreatitis - ex dh liver is fine. Pancreas isn’t

I come back to this thread often for several reasons, partly to try to start is a very small way to offer support to those in the midst of it all, but also still for me. I lost my alcoholic to suicide 9 months ago, we had been separated for 8 months before that, because I was scared for my safety. I still wonder often if I had found more strength earlier to stop trying to help him (and therefore enable) he might have found a happier way out…..equally he might have killed me in the interim in one of his rages. I think his alcoholism was covering up something much deeper within him, and he was never able to seek help for that.

We scattered his ashes last weekend, and the feelings have been coming to the surface again. Both good and unpleasant flashbacks and dreams that always have the undercurrent of what was so wrong. I am also so tired.

There is another side, and the is hope there, but memories are strong. I know this is part of the process, and at least in one aspect I do have complete closure, but it has left a lot of people devastated.

hugs to all 🌼

@Userccjlnhibibljn8 the thing that jumps out at me and that you need to remember from what you have said is 'he might have killed me in the interim in one of his rages' you needed to protect yourself.

I can completely empathise with the guilt but you know it isn't your fault. Knowing it and feeling it are two different thing though. But from an outside perspective, it is not your fault.

@shewillneverstop Oh I know, but as you say feelings will feel.
I am working on ‘faking it, till I make it’ and eventually I will fully know and feel the same.

@Userccjlnhibibljn8 the survivor/leaver guilt is such a powerful thing. It does pass, but it takes years. You're less than a year out, and already you have such a clarity of vision. You will get there. Your recovery will happen. And your posts on here are so, so valuable.

When the guilt gets me (usually at 4am or thereabouts), I remind myself I was going through hell and so were my kids and we are all there solely because of his drinking. I did my best in a lousy situation and his death was the result of his terrible choices.

For very different reason I am going to counselling right now. But it really helps to 'catch myself' I am awful for going in and absolutely destroying myself. But now I 'catch it' and even if it means talking out loud I say, no, you know that is not true.

So every time you start to feel the guilt address it. Tell it, no, you are not mine to keep and I do not deserve to feel guilt