Occupation order hearing next week, panicking

[mamacat612]

Can anyone tell me what my chances are or have any experience of this?

I am divorcing my husband, we have one child. I left the family home with our child to go live with family members due to his angry outbursts.

I asked him within a few weeks to please move out of the home and allow myself and our child to move back in. This is for stability for our child. He refused and said he has no where else to go. This is partially true, we moved to an area to be close to my family when we had our child and his parents and family members do live hours away, I don’t dispute this.

I applied for an occupation order on advice.

He is saying if he is forced to leave the home, that he will have no choice but to move back to parents which means loosing his job, or be homeless.

We both earn similar amounts, neither of us can afford a private rental and paying half the mortgage which I have accepted in my statement.

He is saying in his statement that I can get housing benefit and rent with our child and has done a calculation! Or live with family members but I want our child to be back in the family home. My family members can’t accomodate us long term and it’s crapped as we are in a flat.

He has started financial proceedings for the divorce as we haven’t been able to agree with either the sale of the house or buying each other out.

If I am to move back in I can’t afford the mortgage alone and would need him to still pay his half.

I don’t have any concrete evidence of his angry outbursts other than my statement, no other witnesses. But I can’t move back in and live with him until this is all sorted, his behaviour scares me.

For his part he says we did argue at the end of the relationship, but he denies any angry outbursts or intimidating behaviour.

We are both self representing and there will be a legal advisor at the hearing to ask questions.

Unfortunately you don't have any evidence of this abuse, so that is not a consideration. People split up all the time and have to sell their homes, without sounding harsh, why do you think you are entitled to him bankrolling your housing once you've split up, especially when you can stay with family?

I can see that the thread has moved on a fair bit since I wrote my extremely long post (I'm sorry!) but just a few points I wanted to comment on, again, giving the legal perspective as a barrister:

1. Assuming the property and mortgage are in your joint names, you are both liable to pay the mortgage in full. If he stopped paying towards it, you would have to make up the shortfall, and vice versa. If the mortgage payments are missed, both of you will damage your credit rating, regardless of whose fault it is. This will make it difficult to buy going forward. So please don't just stop paying, especially without discussing it with him. if it's not affordable right now, consider a mortgage holiday or transferring to interest only temporarily.
2. I don't know your financial details but it sounds like the house will inevitably have to be sold as it sounds like neither of you can afford to buy the other out or take over the mortgage solely. As such, the property needs to go on the market without any delay. Arguments about value don't matter hugely, therefore - it will go on for what the estate agent advises, and sell for what the market thinks it's worth. It doesn't matter if it's not finished, neither of you can afford to continue the reno and there will still be buyers. Just get it on the market asap.
3. Again, hugely general advice - but the family home is almost always seen as a joint asset, regardless of who paid what. Without knowing more, all I can say is that it would be very unusual for your bigger investment to be ring fenced and returned to you. That's not to say that you shouldn't get a bigger share - If you earned significantly less than him for example and so had a smaller mortgage capacity, that would be a good case for you having more than half the equity. But that's based on needs, not contributions, which is what the Court will focus on when considering finances.

Domestic abuse doesn’t have to be physical. Coercive control (control using anger and creating fear as an example) is now a crime. I’ll bet he’s bigger and more powerful than her and dysregulated rage will have a frightening and organising impact in these circumstances.

This isn’t true. The debt is to the mortgage company and assuming @mamacat612 is on the mortgage she is in fact jointly and severally liable for the entire debt whether she live there or not (as would be her STBEH). If it isn’t paid both would be on the hook and take the risk to their credit. Play silly games get silly prizes.

@mamacat612 . I don’t know about the occupation order, though to be honest doesn’t sound like a slam dunk. You are also going to need to decide what is more important to you, getting max value for the house and your deposit returned in full or getting in with the divorce and financial order & compromise accordingly.

Did you protect your deposit when you bought the house? If not then your chances of getting it back in full are reduced, especially if the equity is lower that one might expect ( as is often the case on a renovation project). You also say the house is only partially done and needs to be finished to maximise the return, that may be true but you can’t expect him to hang around, homeless, on reduced means and away form his child while you get round to finishing the project- that’s just really unrealistic. Basically you will both have to share the hit on the Reno impact, you cannot expect to have your cake and eat it.

Sounds difficult for all concerned and you may just need to try and talk sensibly to see how you could both live there, not fun or ideal, but absent actually being in danger a real incentive to both of you to compromise and get on with the separation.

Everyone knows this, but the fact remains a sudden accusation with no history and no evidence when trying to get back into the house is not going to carry any weight,

I was in your situation once. I got a bank loan to pay the deposit on a rental house and moved out, I stopped paying anything towards the mortgage and my husband had to buy me out. Your husband will have to sell up.

You’ve said you think it needs more work to get the ‘true value’ but you have no money for it and it would only delay things?

You unfortunately didn’t report any DV until now when you are fighting about the house, so you have no proof to force him out.

You didn’t protect your inheritance in the deposit.

I think your only real option is to get the house on the market asap at the lower valuation if needed and get it sold as quick as you can. Then use your half of the equity to start again.

Hi OP it’s a really tough and sad time for you with a lot of upheaval already and lots to still come. You will get through it but try and make it as easy and painless for yourself as possible.

From a legal perspective you do not have enough evidence for an occupation order. The court will expect you to move back in if you do not have anywhere else to
live. You would split the areas in the house I.e bedroom each and lounge each if you have two. A timetable can be prepared and have set times when the communal areas can be used such as the kitchen. This happens all the times as many divorcing couples cannot afford to run two separate houses while divorcing.

He works full time and is out of the house a lot. He will still see his girlfriend so there is additional time he is away. If you cannot be civil the court would expect you not communicate with one another or use an approved communication service instead like wizard app.

The courts are heavily backlogged and you are fighting over very little money. You both just need to be re housed. He needs at least two bed too for when the child stays with him.

He will as a minimum be given the EOW and one day in the week. Courts and social services advocate for fathers who have an interest in seeing their child, being given that chance and trying. Hopefully he will be a good dad. Especially when he moved to be closer to your family. Eventually he will get some time in the school holidays too. Agree this without court and use the free time for yourself and a fresh start.

Wishing you all the best.

Wow this thread is depressingly sad from how alot of people are speaking to the OP

sorry you are going through this OP and yes of course it could be abuse.

I hope you get it sorted. I thought that you would get help from benefits so that you could stay in the home with your child.

Could you check here see if you are entitled to anything ? benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/?utm_source=Citizensadvice%20&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ip&utm_term=ca_web

@mamacat612 I think it’s very telling that you’ve had a comment from someone who is legally trained who obviously can’t give you specific legal advice but has given you a good overview on what will happen and you haven’t responded to them. You seem to be so fixated on your opinion what you think should happen I think you are setting yourself up for a big fall. You’re not being reasonable or practical.

OP is the one who is dragging this out and stalling the sale of their home though, and that's without being the one who gets to live in it. She would act even more unreasonable if he had moved out and into a rented room whilst waiting for the house to be sold. At least this way he has some kind of leverage.

Not wanting to return to the house if your husband is there, not the same as not being able to.

It is not uncommon for allegations of abuse to be leveled during divorce. Without evidence it is not something that a judge will take seriously.

As the PP said, a judge has discretion to make costs your financial responsibility. The courts don’t want to entertain or encourage vexatious litigants.

I have thanked them.

Absolutely in many cases. In this particular case, physical injury was just one piece of evidence she doesn’t have (and that to be fair she accepts doesn’t exist). If she can produce (e.g.) GP / counsellor / women’s aid evidence going back years of emotional / verbal abuse she might have a chance at coercive control,

As it is, she persuaded him to move away from his family, wants the majority of the family assets, is trying to leave him homeless and has suddenly claimed DV after leaving when it financially benefits her. If she’s not careful, he’s not the one who is going to be alleged to be guilty of coercive control.

Did you have a feed of trust? Even if you did marriage can over ride that.

Oh Op, this is going to end up being a costly lesson. If nothing was written into the house purchase that you put in X amount, I don’t think there’s anything you can do. Who is going to pay for the rest of the house renovations? If he’s hardly living there as you say, then you need to move back in. There is no perfect solution to this mess.

Because you haven't painted it as "domestic abuse". This was an end of marriage argument, with some shouting. Going by what you said, you are not an abused woman.

Years ago my ex husband suddenly revealed he was deeply religious and would now be following it to a T (I had some idea he followed a religion but he was very moderate) - when I didn't agree to play by his rules, he started hitting me and calling me all sorts of names like "dirty slag" (I'd never even kissed another guy before him). It all came to a head one day when he hit me and it somehow spilled onto the street. My two burly Polish neighbours heard, threw him into his car, and told them they'd kill him if he ever came back.

And even then I didn't use this in the divorce. I just said unreasonable behaviour and he signed off on it. Neither of us had any money anyway.

But why do you think he should pay the mortgage on a house he doesn't live in and isn't allowed access to? Neither of you can afford to keep the house. You've split up. If only one of you lives there, only one pays. And neither can afford it. So trying to get the house is a waste of time.

He has told me I have to continue paying my half, even though I don’t live there.

I have family members who can help with the renovations if I move back in.

Also I’ve said many times I know neither of us can afford to keep the house. This is about what happens in the meantime. Until it is sold and the divorce proceedings finish. That isn’t going to happen overnight.

My child and I haven’t done anything wrong yet we are displaced from the family home?

The house is small, there is no way we could live there together on a schedule. Only one sitting room. Small bedrooms etc.

But nobody can make him pay half the mortgage on the house he no longer lives in. But his ex does.
You don't have to pay half either if you don't live there anymore. You need to sell the property and split everything for good.

No one is saying it will be fun, but you’ll have to do it. A major incentive for everyone to get on with the sale.

Go back to the family home then.
and yes keep paying the mortgage as it’ll ruin your credit rating if you default on it. Or speak to the mortgage company about taking a payment break. I feel you’re looking for a perfect to answer to all this and there isn’t one.

You have to sell the house "as is" not on what you think it might achieve with renovations. You didn't ring fence your deposit so it will automatically go into the marital pot to be split. Arguing at the end of a relationship is not DA.

Expecting him to leave his child and his job so he can return to his parents for a roof over his head when you are already housed (albeit temporarily) is nuts. Saying you can't work more hours because DC is BF but in a nursery is also nuts.

Right now you are coming across as very unreasonable. Get the house sold "as is" immediately. Look into benefits so you can afford a rental, even a 1bed flat.

Adults DS has a female lodger and her child in one ensuite bedroom. It's just until her family house is sold. I'm sure its absolutely not ideal for the kid, but they are warm and safe and have access to a kitchen. The Mum is lodging with my son as she wanted to live in a particular school catchment area. Could you lodge?