Keiran Hayler has been found NOT GUILTY

[Thefrocklady]

I think Katie Price might be next in the docks.
She seems hell bent on ruining her exes lives.

Agree, but that’s the case I guess for a lot of people in the public eye. They must have family help or a nanny to enable them to work.

No family help and no nanny in this case. She does not have custody of those children.
She does, however, have carers for Harvey

I still don’t understand how she pays for all these things

Good question. It's alleged that she's been hiding money from the authorities for years to avoid paying her debts.
That said, Only Fans can be quite lucrative so who knows?

Her two youngest are not with her. She failed a certain test......

Yes it does

BPF? Why make excuses for shite behaviour.

Glad you have never experienced abuse and trauma

Your reply to me was deleted by Mumsnet.

Having experienced abuse or trauma, or having a diagnosis of BPD, does not make it acceptable to abuse or traumatise others. These experiences may help explain someone’s behaviour (and subsequent diagnosis’s), but they do not excuse it or absolve them of responsibility for the harm they cause.

Agree. My very much younger than me sister has an official, made by a psychiatrist, diagnosis of C-PTSD because of her upbringing by our ?NPD/BPD mother.

The issue is that some people with personality disorders absolutely refuse to think that their behaviour is in any way unreasonable, let alone engage with any diagnosis or treatment for it.

It makes for a very hard life for those around them, believe me, and permanent scarring. I have no idea of the answer, but it is not to pretend that this doesn't exist and refuse to acknowledge the damage it can cause.

The issue is that some people with personality disorders absolutely refuse to think that their behaviour is in any way unreasonable, let alone engage with any diagnosis or treatment for it.

This is my exact experience too.

My mother's sibling, a very much beloved uncle, was schizophrenic, diagnosed 1950s. He took the (horrible) drugs that were available then, came off them when he thought he was OK, was intermittently very physically dangerous in a terrible cycle, but did not cause the cruel emotional damage that my mother did. I miss him to this day.

I have concluded that if you are exposed to an upbringing or relationship with someone who causes such damage, it is very difficult to feel sympathy or empathy, in fact sometimes impossible, and I'm not going to apologise for that any more.

I'm surprised the MNetters are on his side as usually they say it must be true.

Well a Jury has decided he is innocent.

For the Judge to make such a statement about her testimony is extraordinary. What were the CPS thinking bringing this case?

Not innocent.
Just "not guilty". It's not the same thing!

So by your reckoning everyone who has ever been found "not guilty" was in fact guilty?

No. That's not what I said.

Out of every verdict EVER, there will be a proportion of folk who are guilty but the jury returns a not guilty verdict.... And some folk convicted who are innocent...

Sadly thats the best system we've got... Juries are fallible, some barristers are brilliant others crap, some witnesses are good, others not...

Sexual assaults have one of the highest guilty but found not guilty... cos of the high burden of proof in criminal court and by nature of crime rarely witnesses...

I think it was around the end of the PA marriage that this unstable behaviour all started to come out of the woodwork. PA seems to have most of it "locked down" and it seems not to be spoken about by either of them but there are rumours that she thought he was having an affair (remember all the accusations about his female manager? - Which PA has consistently denied, and I think said lady is still his manager), then possibly proceeded to have an affair herself which ended the marriage...

The problem you have is you can make no judgement whatsoever without reading the court transcripts.

There are however indications - such as the judge declaring a witness "dangerous" which is effectively declaring them a liar. Add on to that the fact this was a single prosecution, no others have come out of the woodwork (look at other cases in the media, a current one is being tried for, I think, six separate incidents, which can indicate a pattern of behaviour). There was no evidence beyond "he said, she said", even the text messages referred to no longer existed - it was other people, like KP, testifying that they existed.

Its also worth considering that the prosecution and police would have been under immense pressure to be seen to be doing something, given the profile of the people involved and the noise generated by the KP media machine - she knows how to work the system. Once the allegations were made publicly - fronted by KP herself - it started the whole thing in motion which then required action.

I notice none of you experts seem to think that the abuse bpd sufferers experianced is unreasonable, people with bpd didn't choose to have it you know, it's the result of the shitty treatment they have endured.
You carry on like you are victims, it's the people with bpd who are the victims. A lot of trauma is needed to cause it