Why Gaza?

[Mixymaxymoxy]

There are several atrocities happening in the world that could be described as genocides. Sudan, DCR, Rohingya in Myanmar, Yazidi in Iraq,

why has the Gaza / Palestinian cause motivated young people in the west more than any of the above ?

if you are a protester, how do to decide which cause to protest about ? If your children are protesting, why do you think they chose this one ?

I’m 54 and was not politically active when I was younger. I’m seeing the protests in France and elsewhere and wondering why Gaza so much part of the protests?

Because the atrocities are being carried out by 'our side'

What in the conspiracy brain are you talking about, you aren’t a victim, you are just wrong. Pointing out you are wrong isn’t othering you. I have no idea what you are wittering on about.

The law doesn’t specify that intelligence services share everything about a terror case with the general public. Evidence is often heard in closed court, i.e. the Shamima Begum case, the judge heard evidence from security services the general public are never likely to know about.

Utterly strange response.

Less safe in what way ?

Or is that a secret ?

Why do you think that Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews? Was it because he was more interested in killing lighter skinned people than darker skinned ones?

I mean, that's not to say there might not be some antisemitism involved, but I think it's worth considering.

You said "if you think it would be easy, then perhaps you can give more details about what you would have said and when you would have said it - if you were the Jewish press." So I did.

Anti semitism.

Indeed, and you bottled it and presented your own opinion instead of speaking for the Jewish community as you suggested they should have done.

I completely stand by what I say, utter fucking numpty, we have never ever attacked an actual ally who has neither harmed us or our interests. If we are going to conduct military action at all it should be against people who have actually attacked us which Israel hasn’t.

You don’t have to like them but there is no reason for us to attack them. How would it help the situation any? What would be the purpose?

But I am one person. I don't edit a Jewish newspaper nor do I hold a position on a Jewish representative body. Those organisations represent the Jewish community. And they are reluctant to talk about the response to Oct 7th despite (rightly) condemning Oct 7th itself.

<facepalm>

you said it would be easy for them to do. But you are unable to explain how. Perhaps not easy after all.

Why is it a strange response? It's just basic logic. It is you that is doing the conspiracy stuff, by saying there is secret intel. plots being foiled, plots that are so secret that nobody can know about them.

Quote ": Shamima Begum case, the judge heard evidence from security services the general public are never likely to know about."

And how do you know this if it is secret? She has been on telly you know. Or is she bound by the Official Secrets Act ?

How am I demonstrating that it's not easy? They could just copy my words. Or come up with their own.

But your words do not represent the opinion of the Jewish community, as you said. They represent your opinion.

Yes... But the Jewish press has editorials, and the Jewish representative groups have press offices. They give opinions on lots of things including Oct 7th itself. So why haven't they said what they think about the response to Oct 7th? They could use my words or, if they have different views, use different words.

Well yes, they give opinions on things relating to British Jews. Which as I have mentioned, would include a massacre of Jews, but not include the actions of the Israeli government.

Well, our disagreement appears unresolvable.

You are adamant that whilst Oct 7th is something that British Jews can be expected to give their opinions on, the response to it is not (and to even suggest that it is, is anti-Semitic).

I am adamant that when British Jews give their opinions on Oct 7th it is reasonable to ask their opinions on the response to it as well.

Because people are shocked at a live stream genocide which the west is backing. I think that a lot of eyes have been opened. Literally thousands of children killed, amputation without anaesthesia. That's why.

Yes, where we differ is that you think that emotional devastation in response to a massacre of your friends and family is a reasonable opener to political debate whereas I would think that a serious dick move.

Not only is that language beneath you, but the argument makes no sense. Oct 7th was a massacre of people's friends and family. It was also the beginning of something which has political consequences. One can acknowledge and respect horror and grief whilst at the same time, three years later, legitimately ask political questions such as whether the response to the horror is proportionate.

There is no 'live-streamed genocide', throwing around simplistic catchphrases doesn't change the geopolitical reality.

Urban warfare against a terrorist organisation embedded in civilian infrastructure is horrific, and the loss of life is tragic. War is bad enough without relying on hyperbolic slogans.

I can’t dismiss it as I genuinely don’t know. But I don’t believe that there may be only “some” antisemitism in the coverage. Even the coverage of Oct 7th where Hamas were called ‘militants’ or ‘fighters’.. what more would they have had to have done to be called terrorists??

Yes Israel is a democracy yet I really don’t think that explains the current obsessive hate and bias. I used to think like you and came up with every excuse under the sun. I am slowly coming to realise that this is good old antisemitism spreading like it always has.

On the contrary, the language conveyed exactly what I wanted to say and my opinion hasn't changed.

This is bizarre. Even the Labour gov has talked about the importance of sharing intelligence. Where are you picking this stuff up?

Perhaps the pp information is limited where they are idk but it’s off to want to lower intelligence sharing. It’s the people in the UK who would be impacted.

What no, we often have short reports of plots foiled in the news. What we don’t get is the intelligence details. So for example MI5 have specifically said that over 20 Iranian plots have been foiled in the UK since 2022. Clearly MI5 don’t tell the public every time they find something because it’s obviously sensitive. This is a government page with statements regarding threats to the UK. Sorry it hadn’t occurred to me that you may not be British and so not getting the same information as the rest of us. I hope this helps you understand that we don’t get some sort of public statement and details of the investigation and where intelligence was gleaned from. This would obviously pose a risk to sources or expose other security services for example.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/protecting-national-security

On statements made on hansard you know if an MP stands up and say we have intelligence sharing arrangements with Israel, literally any other MP can get up and refute that. So if Kemi and Tom were lying any MP is able to challenge them. I just find it extraordinary that you think theres some sort of conspiracy where they are lying about it for some reason.

On Shamima Begum it was widely reported that a judge heard evidence from security services in closed court, this is a link to the case file produced by the court so you can see evidence was heard in secret. Again because it was considered sensitive. I imagine she wouldn’t necessarily be on tele sharing the details of why the security services think she should have had her nationality revoked, might make her look bad.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Begum-v-SSHD-CA-2023-000900-2024-EWCA-Civ-152.pdf

As you can see nothing I have said is pointing to secret plots or any weird shit.

There is evidence above that closed courts are used to hear evidence from security services that is deemed too sensitive to be heard by the public in the UK. You can also see the security services own statements about how many plots have been foiled and yes again we may not always know and we may not know where the intelligence comes from

Aaaand heres Ed Miliband confirming that intelligence sharing between the UK and Israel exist

https://www.thenationalnews.com/news/uk/2026/09/09/miliband-confident-israel-intelligence-sharing-will-continue-despite-damaging-sanctions-backlash/