Why Gaza?

[Mixymaxymoxy]

There are several atrocities happening in the world that could be described as genocides. Sudan, DCR, Rohingya in Myanmar, Yazidi in Iraq,

why has the Gaza / Palestinian cause motivated young people in the west more than any of the above ?

if you are a protester, how do to decide which cause to protest about ? If your children are protesting, why do you think they chose this one ?

I’m 54 and was not politically active when I was younger. I’m seeing the protests in France and elsewhere and wondering why Gaza so much part of the protests?

To all the people on this thread thinking Israel is irredeemably bad , it’s like you were watching WW2 and only saw what the allies were doing, but had completely wiped the actions of the Nazis and their collaborators, out of the equation. So throughout the whole war you were never looking at the actions of Germany and co, so you were never looking at how the allies were responding to them. So you had no context t to understand the actions of the allies nor their reasoning. Instead you just loook horrified at the deaths and suffering of Germans and deaths of German women and children and then considered yourself good and humane people for condemning the allies.

The reason is because Hamas refuses to engage with Israel and refuses to consider a two state solution. The Palestinians were offered a two state solution at least 6 times in history - most recently in 2008. They turned it down as they turned down everything else as they demand ‘from the river to the sea’ and nothing less than that. The signs at the march this weekend calling for a ‘one state solution’ aren’t supporting Israel.

Israel and its allies have offered to have talks or mediation or anything really but Hamas and their friends won’t even sit at the table. They just call for a global intifada and demand the entirety of the region. So there’s no starting point at all. Israel certainly helps nothing by their mess of settlers in the West Bank. That’s a total misstep and a tragedy for many reasons.

I agree the world should stop giving it this much bandwidth. I can’t get involved in anything local anymore as everything has been co-opted as a Palestine march - even the pro choice protests I used to join are covered in Palestinian flags for unknown reasons. We have thousands of problems we should be working on right here and everyone is way too busy interjecting in a timeless struggle no one even understands properly.

The UK has recognised the state of Palestine and we've ceased trade with settlers in the West Bank. This is a result of pressure from the people who protest, petition and care.
The UK has recognised the state of Palestine because they were running scared of losing the ' Muslim vote' to a now Hard Left/Islamist extremist party, so good luck to anyone who has any concerns about cousin marriage, grooming gangs and voter fraud once Labour are pulled even further down that road and implement their blasphemy against Islam guidelines. The sanctions on the West Bank settlement ( which most Israel's are also against) have succeeded in getting our embassy closed, making Palestinians more unsafe.

Then one wonders whether those idiots protestors should have done more research before marching alongside those people and joining in those chants?

Should people know that Zionist has long been used as a codeword for Jew by antisemites? Before they decided that it was now acceptable to demonise 'Zionists' and without knowing what Zionist actually means?

Should they have done some research into antisemitism before declaring 'I never see any antisemitism at the marches' where widespread chants and slogans call for the eradication of Israel and the killing of Jews?

I mean, we're now in the position where an established political party with members of parliament now has a policy of eradicating Israel and demonising Zionists, which I'm pretty fucking angry about while people whine 'oh we didn't know'.

Israel have done nothing to protect Palestinian lives.
They've cut of power and water. They have blocked aid. They've shot at civilians who have sought the little aid that was let in (verified by American soldiers who were there to support the aid distribution and British doctors who treated the injured). They've used children as target practice for funz (reported by doctors who treated multiple teenage boys with bullet wounds to their testicular area). They told Palestinian civilians to evacuate one area, to go to another, then bombed them on route. They bombed the camps that displaced Palestinians were living in.
They've directly targeted Palestinians in their homes over and over again.

Palestinians were the ones targeted over and over again before October 7th ever happened. That was them fighting back, as you said. When someone threatens to keep coming for you, why would you just stay put and take it?

Unsafe because of who? Who are they at threat of?

Nadia Sawahlia & her husband Mark Adderley...the latter suspended from the greens because he was too anti-semetic for them?

Watch it with your critical thinking hat on if you must.

I think it's quite hard to protest in a legitimate way against Gaza without being anti-Semitic-adjacent. The protests are hijacked by that small minority. I don't really know what advice you could give to the majority of legitimate protesters (almost all of whom are not idiots).

Language is important, and can be hijacked. There are words we can use to ratchet down tension, and words we can use that ratchet it up.

Some people lack the nuance of language, or there simply aren't the words to describe their feelings without those words being very sensitive to people who may assume ill-intent.

Of course there are bad people who have genuine ill intent. But the vast majority of protesters do not, just like the vast majority of Jews in the UK are slightly uneasy (to say the least) at some of the more aggressive elements of the Netanyahu government.

Because the closing of the embassy has made it more difficult to observe what is happening in Gaza and has meant that there is only a small amount of consular support for any British aid workers or other British citizens in Gaza, meaning they would be less likely to want to stay. Israel couldn't care less about us. Only the US has any influence, and even then that seems to be diminishing.

When someone threatens to keep coming for you, why would you just stay put and take it?

Does that same reasoning apply to Israel, or only Hamas?

Caring about the environment got a bit tired, so Palestine has become the current fashionable cause for people who see themselves as moral and left wing. It is slightly removed from them, so very safe and no one expects them to actually do anything apart from go on sociable marches with like minded people and get outraged online.

They completely ignore the fact that virtually no one on the right or left thinks the treatment of the Palestinians is right and nearly everyone would like a decent and reasonable peace agreement to be reached. They also ignore the fact that Iran back militant groups who see the UK as an 'evil' enemy are not a particularly appealing group to support.

The UN is not a court. It’s a highly political body, subject to the bias of all political bodies. There are 48 Muslim majority countries in the world, as well as other countries with substantial Muslim voter populations. There is only one Jewish majority country and no other country in the world with a notable Jewish voter population. There are about 2 billion Muslims in the world and around 15 million Jews. These stats obviously affect UN opinions and thereby UN reports and positions.

The UN is a highly biased political organisation. Thinking it’s reports reflect objective reality rather than calculated political machinations is like thinking the countries voting in Eurovision Song Contest are genuinely selecting the best song.

God its always only a matter of time until someone comes on here talking about how October 7th was 'fighting back'.

🙄

@noblegiraffe nothing the Greens do surprises me any more!

I mean, you could advise 'legitimate protesters' to not tolerate antisemitism on the marches? The organisers could say 'no globalise the intifada, no from the river to the sea, no praising terrorists, no demonising Zionists' and enforce that. If it's a 'small minority' then surely that is easily handled? What were they scared of? Or rather, did they actually agree with it? (I know the answer to that, by the way, when the organisers are the Palestine Solidarity Campaign).

It's this ignoring of the obvious antisemitism by people who consider themselves morally correct that has lead to the situation the Green Party is in of being institutionally antisemitic, by policy. Why did the 'reasonable' Greens not mobilise themselves against this motion and get it shut down? Why did the 'reasonable' protestors tolerate the antisemitism on the marches and continue attending them?

Either they agreed with it, or they didn't care enough about it to take a stand against it. But they still consider themselves the good guys.

You're completely correct, but unfortunately many people like to learn their world politics from the Ladybird Book of Outrage and don't see the bigger picture.

Anti semitism and anti US feeling

the area being so important to so many people it will create more news than many other atrocities that at happening in the world plus Isreal is looked upon as being a western country

many people speak out against the Israeli government but many people while doing so show there anti semitism

The Palestinian course has always been popular with lefties Remember Yasser Arafat… they loved him

Cause

Where I live (Birmingham) the whole 'free Palestine' sentiment grew massively as a result of there being a large Muslim population, putting Palestine flags up in their windows, cars, lampposts, etc. Tommy Robinson types got majorly pissed off about this, which kicked off operation 'Raise the Flags' whereby there was an influx of England and British flags put up on lampposts and painted on roundabouts.

Many people didn't really understand/care why the Palestine flags were put up. The Tommy Robinson types seemed to think it was an English invasion/attempt to eradicate and intimidate English culture and people. But what the hanging of both flags caused, was a lot more discourse and publicity about what had been happening in Palestine. I haven't seen many Sudanese or other flags about. I saw many Ukraine flags at one time. Funnily enough, the Tommy Robinson types didn't care so much about that. Most likely because they share the same skin tone.

The billionaire Yasser Arafat? Not an obvious socialist hero. Like TRAs & islamists they are strange bedfellows.

If you think this is about skin tone you really haven't been paying attention.

I gave a lengthy explanation about my thoughts. The skin tone was a small additional thought. If you want to hyperfocus on that, feel free.

Excellent questions.

I wasn’t even aware of the cancelled ICC fact-finding mission. Just googled it and got this:

ICC Chief Prosecutor Karim Khan abruptly cancelled a planned evidence collection mission to Israel and Gaza on 20 May 2024, opting instead to publicly request arrest warrants for Israeli and Hamas leaders.

The primary goal of the trip was to gather forensic evidence directly in Gaza, visit sites of the 7 October attacks in Israel, and crucially, give Israeli legal and military leadership their first formal opportunity to present their domestic defence and demonstrate compliance with international law.

This decision blindsided international partners including the United States and the United Kingdom, leading to severe diplomatic fallout, threats of funding withdrawal, and subsequent economic sanctions against the ICC.

The arrest warrants obviously haven’t had much of a practical effect anyway, so it makes you wonder why on earth he cancelled a proper, on-the-ground investigation just to rush them through?

It is not a tiny minority. Right from the very start this antizionist movement was marked by a complete lack of concern for Israeli lives. The people celebrating on Oct 7th, the people organizing marches within days without even pausing for breath to allow mourning for Israelis ( let alone mourning themselves), the people tearing down hostage posters, the people rewriting Ictober 7th as the start of Palestinian suffering ( thus colonizing and erasing Jewish suffering), the ‘the there is only one solution, intifada revolution’ ( one ‘solution’ chanted at Jews? And this is not anti-Semitic?) , celebrating massacres of Jews ( khyber chants). And all this and no placards or banners for the hostages or Israeli lives. Sorry, if you March along that, you are part of the hate movement. This is not a human rights movement.

After October 7th I watched a lot of debates as thats a good way to see what are hopefully the most informed on each side air their views and have them challenged. What struck me was that the ‘Palestinian’ side simply did not care about Israeli lives. They had no concern for Israeli security or safety. Just like all those marchers. I did not see this on the Israeli side. They, like me, cared about Palestinian suffering but blamed Hamas. They, like me, could not understand why the pro-Palestinian side were not furious at a Hamas for all the suffering they were causing, starting a war, building no bomb shelters, not letting civilians in their underground city of tunnels, stealing food aid.

The antizionist movement is not a human rights movement. It’s a hate movement.