Jason Arday dead

[ThisWiseRobin]

Just putting this out there, but just heared.A sad end to a whole sorry mess.

The Spectator have a good discussion on online about the state of universities relating to this. A journalist from the magazine says there are plenty of people like Arday. They may not have all plagerised but there are lots of them adding no value. She argued that in such an environment, its not surprising that he was able to flourish.

She referred to a UK academic somewhere arguing that competence and individual achievement are white values that should be resisted....

Tis true.
One cannot take advantage of a situation except for the incompetence or deliberate negative interference of those who are in charge.

That’s hilarious - I don’t think Spectator journos are best placed to accuse others of not adding value 😆. I know a few people who went into journalism and a couple have done very well, including one who regularly writes for the Spectator. It would be fair to say that none of them were the sharpest tools in the box.

Whereas the Spectator is adding enormous value! If it’s the piece I saw it was Tony Young, who gleefully admitted he got into university - despite being unqualified a because his father called up and asked for him to be let in.

Seriously, people have always enjoyed pooh poohing academia, or anyone saying something different. It’s not all meant to be useful, some of it is knowledge for its own sake.

Well both of the comments above are more about attacking the speaker than addressing the arguments.

But on that, Toby Young is someone who has added enormous value, his work on the FSU is hugely valuable and important. He also was very committed to improving education. You don't have to like everything the man has ever said to acknowledge he has lived a life actively and practically trying to address the problems he sees in society.

“ A journalist from the magazine says there are plenty of people like Arday”. Well it must be true then 🤷🏼‍♂️

Has he moved away from eugenics?

You know, you need to tell the people who have been trying to come up with a way to measure intelligence for entry to grammar schools. They haven't managed to write one that selects for intelligence over parental wealth yet.

I was a Spectator subscriber for years and some of Toby’s writing was quite entertaining (often unintentionally), but I don’t think you’d take him seriously on anything. Reminds me of another famous Spectator journalist.

I take him very seriously on the issue of Free Speech even if his boundaries around this are not the same as mine. A lot of people take him very seriously on this and the Free Speech Union has had some fantastic successes.

The idea of race is a man made one.

Therefore young children don't tend to notice race until something or someone posts it out to them.

What race really is down to is basic survival or one up manship over another group. Which means racists can come in all colours or IQs.

(Obviously I am not saying their aren't cultural differences or physical differences etc between groups of people. Just want to get that out there before someone says I am claiming something weird!)

Stopped clocks I guess.

the laura brown article?
if so, i did not find it sharp or enlightened.

I had to remind myself why Toby Young autocorrects to 'The odious Toby Young' in my head.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/3136151-Should-people-who-attend-Nazi-conferences-get-government-funding?page=1

And yet he keeps falling upwards. His dad may have coined the term meritocracy but it is incredibly clear when you look at Toby Young that we are not living in one.

I agree, you don’t have to like someone or believe them to be suitably qualified to believe they have added value. There are people who have gone on record to say that Jason Arday inspired and educated them. My point is that Toby Young criticising academic standards is a bit rich, given his entry to it was facilitated by nepotism, not talent.

Haven’t read an article, it was a discussion online

Not at all. There’s that, which is a major thing not a minor one, his work to improve education, and his work combatting anti-Semitism ( I bumped into him at a March against anti-Semitism). All major issues to create a better society that I agree with.

@Switchnow he co-founded a free school and was Director of an education network. That is hardly just ‘criticising education’. I’m getting the impression you are criticising him on this without knowing what he did?
I also can’t see at all that your allegation that there was nepotism in his own education is relevant. If you take this line presumably tou also thing things like people raised in relative affluence cannot work to combat poverty? That we are always condemned by our parents actions and must have the causes we care about limited by that? Because that doesn’t make any sense to me.

In fact I am getting the impression you are being a bit ‘throw enough mud at a wall.

Interesting posts on here.
Have never done an official IQ test but have postgrad quals/been often described as ‘so bright’ and had to re-do a non-verbal IQ test set by a recruiting company because they hadn’t seen that high a score when recruiting before.
But.. would never consider that to be ‘better’ than - eg my ex-army partner who is incredibly intelligent, and my exh too, but with the sort of intelligence that doesn’t get tested in verbal/non-verbal tests.
They really are soooo bright, but not academic.
Academic is definitely not ‘better’, but so many peoplr with that ‘skill’ silence the real intelligence out there in the real world.
I love the intellectual for entertainment.
And enrichment.
But I know who I trust in a practical problem solving scenario.
So high ‘IQ’ does not equal ‘better’.

He founded a free school because he couldn't afford to send all his kids to a private school so the govt funded one for him.

He lost his government jobs because of disgusting jokes about women on social media.

What a hero.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/toby-young-quits-role-as-head-of-new-schools-network-after-sexism-row-a3797816.html

Not to mention his views on eugenics.

’If you take this line presumably tou also thing things like people raised in relative affluence cannot work to combat poverty? That we are always condemned by our parents actions and must have the causes we care about limited by that? Because that doesn’t make any sense to me.’

What you’ve said isn’t what I said and it makes no sense to me how you got there, so we’re in agreement on that.

I think my point is simple but let me try again. Toby Young is the associate editor (I think?) of a publication that has spent many thousands of words decrying the lack of meritocracy in the Arday case. Yet he himself benefited from a lack of meritocracy.

You might well think he did loads of other good stuff, more power to him. And again, plenty of people also believe Arday did good for education, inspired young people and students. But neither are immune from criticism either. That’s all I’m saying.

Certainly a lot of people without an academic background seem to have a chip on their shoulder and something of an inferiority complex. It often feels like they need to prove themselves. It’s apparent on a lot of Mumsnet threads and indeed in the real world. There’s nothing wrong with not being academic. People can be ‘bright’ in their own way.

Sir James Cleverly remarks on this case seem spot on, he spoke of JA being used for bragging rights due to ethnicity and age rather than his merit.

There had been legitimate and genuine concerns about JA. When asked about if the criticism was racial he said possibly but made sure to follow up the concerns raised were valid.

His anger at Cambridge and their lack of due diligence is what he is angry about because someone wouldn’t be dead if this was handled properly.

My point is that Toby Young criticising academic standards is a bit rich, given his entry to it was facilitated by nepotism, not talent

I got there because you said this in response to my post referencing TY’s work on education ( in schools).

Though having read your latest post again here publication that has spent many thousands of words decrying the lack of meritocracy in the Arday case. Yet he himself benefited from a lack of meritocracy I think my post still stands. You allegation does not preclude him from criticising a system of lack of meritocracy ( if he was).

I’d completely missed James Cleverly being knighted!

Yes, I believe it was Sunak as part of his outgoing honours list.

His stance on the JA has been a measured one - firmly placing the blame with Cambridge and how they paraded around their pet.