How do we ACTUALLY solve the rift between dog people and non-dog people?

[Talkingtomyhouseplants]

Inspired by yet another dog thread where all the SAME arguments are trotted out again and again:

The Pro Dog People say:

• The dog is my family, you need to treat it like family
• Why would I get a dog just to leave it at home?
• It’s just a dog, it’s not bothering anyone
• My dog is less annoying than your child
• I love my dog more than I love people
• The dogs are ALLOWED to be there so it’s okay that I bring them places
• If my dog isn’t invited, I would probably choose to stay home as I prefer most dogs to people anyway
• My house is my dog’s home too, I won’t be shutting it away for anyone
• My dog isn’t dangerous - he’s a bit softy.

The Anti Dog People Say

• I’m allergic/scared/don’t like being around them - please keep them away from me
• It’s a pet, not your family
• A dog is not a child
• I won’t have dogs in my house
• Dogs are dirty and unhygienic - they shouldn’t be in shops or places where you eat
• I’m sick of dogs barking and jumping up at me in public and I keep stepping in dog poo
• There are too many places that either actively allow dogs, or more often don’t challenge people who bring them anyway so dogs eventually become allowed
• Dog owners are entitled and pushy and this is why they are now suddenly everywhere
• It’s dangerous to have dogs around children
• Dogs can bite/kill people
• There are too many untrained dogs who are treated like people

Same arguments on both sides, every time.

In my personal life I can think of at least two situations where these opposing views are creating real rifts in families because the dog person wants to bring a dog, and the non-dog person doesn’t want to be around said dog. I can feel it becoming more polarising in society generally, anti dog people are more vocal about being anti dog and pro dog people are more pushy about full inclusion of dogs in human spaces.

So what is the actual solution?

Service dogs are generally very well trained and we can accept that they are necessary. Most kids and adults do not sniff shit and piss and then shove their noses at people, do not shake hair and dander all over the room, do not shit and piss on pavements where people are walking, drool over the merchandise in shops, rub their literal shitty arses on seats where people need to sit…

Oh stop it! She also told me that I should downsize and have a nose job because then I would be able to identify the smell of dog in my more suitably sized house.

Anyway I love my dog. Sometimes he is smelly. Sometimes to my DHs amusement I call him “my smelly, little black dog”. Now if the conversation was that dogs smell we would be having a more grown up conversation.

Dogs smell, people smell, cooking smells,
the rubbish bin smells. It is how we treat the smells that is at the heart of how one’s house smells.

They are in my local one.

Your are incredibly stupid if you believe this to be true. There are many different breeds with different types of fur/hair. Unless you have been in a house with EVERY dog breed in the world you cannot possibly state this.

If you have been in a house with every dog breed in the world then you are a liar as NOT ALL DOGS SMELL. But lots of dog haters are morons

I’m not a dog ‘expert’ but I’d put GSDs in that category but not Labradors or poodles (who are generally soppy). Then all the dogs who are seen as ‘status symbols’.

Well does anyone NEED to be in a cafe unless you have no food in the house or are unable to prepare/cook any food.

For years we had no choice but to sit outside cafes, coffee shops and restaurants with our dog. Sometimes in the rain. Not in France though. They have allowed dogs in eating places for years.

Now the UK has finally become dog friendly although it was always supposed to be a nation of dog lovers and we can sit inside if we choose to

I steer clear of all unknown GSDs as I know of a good few attacks on other dogs round here (and also a bite to a person), but I don't know which ones are the perpetrators.

I live in the countryside. I come into London on the HS from time to time. I come into St Pancras. I love that I am seeing more and more people travelling with their dogs around the country. No barking, jumping, poo not being picked up, dogs running around off lead or smells.

I don’t like seeing teenagers with their feet on the seats, people taking up empty seats with their luggage, people eating smelly food on the train, listening to people’s conversations because they won’t tone it down, people who eat smelly food in the train and then leave their rubbish for someone else to clean up. But it all doesn’t make me dislike people.

My dog was very traumatised when we adopted him. He is now a happy dog and I take great pleasure taking him out into the world and will do so more and more. Why should I lock him away because of a minority of people don’t like dogs. He causes no one any harm.

When I go out socially my dogs stay home. When friends invite me over my dogs stay home. When people come to mine they must accept my dogs are there. I tell them if they don’t like the dogs just tell them to go away. I have doggie and non doggy friends and it’s just not an issue. It’s about give and take.

What is a GSD?

Can you explain the issue in your family OP?

I love dogs and am happy to see them anywhere so long as they are being properly managed and are behaving well.

There will never be dog free offices/cafes/trains etc because disabled people have a legal right to bring assistance dogs with them. So there has to be an underlying acceptance that in public life at least, dogs may be present.

However, the family type issues tend to be more about private lives. No matter how much I love my dog, I would not dream of taking him to someone else’s home unless I had express permission and was confident that he wouldn’t cause any problems.

If that meant I couldn’t go somewhere then I would accept that, I would not dream of applying pressure or trying to overcome objections.

What I wouldn’t appreciate would be any attempt to make me feel guilty about not attending.

Edited to add, if you can’t visit me because you are allergic to or are afraid of dogs, that’s fine. I would accept that without any offence being taken. My dog would not be shut away in his own home though.

I also don’t get this insistence that people take their dogs to other people’s homes. This is surely a minority thing and those that do insist are being unreasonable.

I have never and would never even think of taking my dog to someone’s house. Even dog owners don’t do it to other dog owners on the whole.

Absolutely this. I wouldn't DREAM of asking to take my dogs to someone else's house. I think it's rude. If you come to mine, accept my dogs live here too.
I did take my small well trained young dog to a shopping centre once. Big mistake. He loved it, but took ages to get anything done because people wanted to pet him. 😅. He stays at home. My other dog is reactive and getting training, so he also stays at home.

I talk to my friends and family. I know whose house my dog is welcome at and whose he isn’t. None of them would be the least bit concerned about telling me if their stance changed, either way.

Some of the people who think of themselves as “dog people”, regardless of whether their behaviour is inconsiderate to other people or not, need to consider whether it’s actually good for the dogs or just what they themselves want to do.
Some dogs will tolerate sitting quietly in a coffee shop and enjoy going to other people’s homes etc, but a coffee shop is not a great environment for dogs generally. I see some dogs that are clearly stressed out by the noise, the smells and having to be strictly controlled and sometimes even the presence of other dogs.
Same with going to other people’s homes. Some dogs get quite bugged out by this.
People have pets because they get a dopamine release/ “reward” feeling from caring for them. Indulging them with treats, taking them everywhere might feel good to the owner, but is it actually what a dog wants and needs?
It sounds nice to say the dog is part of the family but sometimes it’s in the dog’s interest for people to remember that they are dogs, not people.

Most dog owners can read their dogs and know if they are unhappy with a place or situation.

As someone who used to visit many homes every working day, (NHS community worker), I can say with assurance that EVERY house smells. We just get noseblind (yes its a thing, google) to our own.The worst ones IMO are the ones where artificial air fresheners are used lavishly or brassicas appear to be being overcooked every single day. Clean dog and clean cat are not nearly as bad IMO and do not get me started on un dealt with litter trays.

I wouldn't say "most dog owners" I see many stressed unhappy dogs every day.

My dogs were part of the family. For me that meant equating their needs with my own. Yes they are dogs and that means they need want and enjoy different things than I do. Same as a baby really. No one says babies aren't part of the family because they have different needs.

No one says babies aren’t part of the family because that would be ridiculous. We literally give birth to them. They share the same blood and genes.

Your dog is not part of your family, however much you wish to pretend it is. It’s an animal, one you have decided to have as a pet. That’s it, nothing more.

It wouldn’t care if you were drowning, but of course as dog people do, you will obviously protest otherwise 🤣

We have a dog but she can be left at home for a few hours and we only take her to dog friendly places. Never taken her to a shopping centre as an example, or if we have an evening meal in restaurant we leave her (have her with us on a summer's evening in beer garden though). We also worked very hard to train and socialise her. We keep her on lead unless in a field without people etc. I think it's poor dog owners that make things difficult.

I don’t know about most.

You see many unhappy dogs every day? Just in passing or are you a vet?

A baby will grow to have the same needs. A dogs needs are always going to be different.

Yes, I do and no I’m not a vet. I have studied animal behaviour though.
Almost every house in my area has dogs. I’m out in my local park with my kids or walking most days. I encounter many dogs every day. A lot of them are poorly trained, badly bred, not socialised properly etc.