Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

Thank you @EnidSpyton and for your other post - I feel like you really get where I’m coming from - especially on the commute front!

Where are your family roughly? (Thinking about the commute for your OH)

Op, it sounds like you need to have a very frank conversation with your husband. Ultimately you can’t kill yourself to support his dream, you need a turn at living your dream too.

the only compromise that I could envisage, and I’ve seen a few female friends do this in recent years, is take a pay and pressure cut to work in the public sector - e.g go from being a banker to working in the Treasury, or being in a law firm to being a solicitor in a gov department. It’s meant still earning a lesser but professional salary but much better life balance. In terms of places to live near London secondaries that aren’t £1mill upwards, have you checked out Barnet in the catchment for Ark Academy or Ashmole Academy, or Enfield around Highlands or Wren. You could get a respectable 3/4 bed for around £800,000. But if the pull is saying go north, you need to have a frank conversation about everyone’s happiness.

@gotmyselfintoapickle Manchester/Leeds direction, but also wouldn’t rule out eg York/Sheffield. DH’s are more rural and more east.

My home town's train service to London is a couple of hours but you have to factor in the often horrific commute to the station and the terrible parking. And the reliability of the service is all over the place.

Looking at the train times alone doesn't give you the full picture.

I would consider changing career first and look into options. Your first priority is a career that’s not burning you out.

However, uprooting the whole family is a lot, especially if DH doesn’t want to go.

Fwiw if my DH proposed moving north he’d be moving alone. I’d never leave London other than for somewhere hot.

You are me.
We made the move and my husband commuted to London for many years. The children had a far better quality of life close to family, made new friends and had access to education and opportunities we could only have dreamt of in London.
It was hard work effectively being a single mum during the week but we made sure that weekends and holidays were spent doing things together as a family. My children are grown up now and all say that they are glad we moved even though it was hard changing schools and their dad being away during the week.
I’d say go for it; he is being selfish and will have far more to deal with if you burn-out completely.

So you aren’t open to a job outside your industry, the industry that nearly killed you?

Look, I get it - I work in Professional Services in the City and I live in a terraced house in zone 3 of London and sometimes hanker after a bigger one. I also share your knee-jerk distaste for “commuterville” and like that I am only 30 mins door to door when I go to the office 3 days a week. But my job hasn't made me ill, and my husband earns similar to me.

You started this thread saying that your husband would be disadvantaged by a move North. So we’re looking for solutions that don’t involve a move North. You’re not really open to exploring those, which is fine, but you might be better placed to convince your husband if you could show you’d spoken to recruiters and the only option was your ”high street” job in Leeds etc.

Why aren't you seeing this situation for what it is? Time to take off those rose tinted spectacles.
Your DP is fannying around "being creative" in London without paying the bills. He would never have been able to do this for so long without you. What hes essentially got is a hobby that pays a little.
If it werent for you he would be doing what most of us artists have to do: live in dives all our adult lives, or leave the capital for a better shot at some kind of quality of life.
This man has his bread buttered on both sides.

I have no idea why you are so protective of him. Youve been ill and you practically single handedly keep a roof over your family's head.

Every one of your post screams what you want deep down, its as clear as day: you want to move up north and take a break from work.

You should do it OP. Stop cheating yourself. You know it's what your heart wants.
Your DP can rent somewhere in London for when he needs tk be there, or (and this makes more sense) he can accept the fact that sometimes in life we have to adapt and come up with a new game plan, because sometimes the dream job doesnt translate to a dream life. Many of us would love to take that volunteer-adjacent role, or work in a whimsical bakery, or just "make money from our craft". Unfortunately unless you inherit money or find a wealthy partner (that would be you), we have to pivot.

Can your DH ask for a pay rise? If he explains his situation and is excellent at his skill they won't want to lose him. Also can you ask for flexible accomodation at your work in light of your recent illness, e.g. working from home 2 days a week, at least for a while.

The answer isn’t commuterville (which I agree would be awful and just as expensive) the answer is a cheaper area in London.

E.g https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/173690333#/?channel=RES_BUY

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/89225478#/?channel=RES_BUY

Or even cheaper if you’re open to a renovation https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/89677596#/?channel=RES_BUY

as plenty of people have said, most people in London don’t have 6-figure salaries and live in only the upmarket areas, and still have a decent life. But I’m biased as I’d rather live in the worst area of London to still live there than move somewhere else.

I agree 100% with this.
Time for some tough conversations.

@HotCrossBunplease Ive worked in this job for 15 years, I’m not qualified in anything else. If we lived somewhere close enough for me to commute in, I’d need another relatively high paid job - I’m not going to walk into one of those in something I’ve got no experience in, even if I wanted to.

The reality is that DH doesn’t earn anywhere near enough to support the family if we continue to live in or anywhere near London. So all the “solutions” that involve us living in or near London mean I have to essentially carry on supporting the family, and because of the nature of my job, that means a lot of office time. The trade off for a better work life balance is a longer commute and for me that is swapping one kind of stress and expense for different stress and expense. In terms of impact on the kids, they would see less of me if we lived further out.

I would love to find a middle ground - I’m not closed to it at all - it’s just that I am certain that both of us commuting into London is not it.

Well then your husband has to give up his job. I don't see any other flex in your plans.

I had the long commute in to London. Absolute misery and I would never do it again.

@thesealion I don’t know what the schools are like in those areas. The houses you’ve linked to are definitely affordable but would be a significant downsize from where we live now. It is an option, but this is perhaps where I am being selfish - after working so hard for so long, I don’t want to move to something like that when I could instead have a detached Victorian villa in walking distance to an excellent school. I feel like I’ve sacrificed my youth, my health, my hobbies, my time with the kids and my family, and if me having a nervous breakdown meant that we had to move the kids out of their school and away from their friends to a small maisonette I would see that as a colossal failure.

Have you seen the prices of detached Victorian villas in Manchester though?

Honestly I think you’re creating a problem that doesn’t exist

Your DH is up for the commute solution

Your kids are the right age for a move

You have connections in the area you want to move to and can afford a better work life balance there

Go for it and don’t look back

I don’t understand people pushing the “move to commuterland” solution. Nice commuter areas are almost as pricey as London. You’d need the same kind of job (& same hours & stress) to afford it and you’d have a big commute on top. Only really works if you have a SAHP or WFHP to cover everything at home, and if you’re willing to be largely absent in the week, neither of which is true here.

One thing I will say though- don’t expect the regional jobs to be 9-5, or even 8-6. It’s still client facing and the clients are still demanding…

OP you do NOT have to kill yourself working all hours in a job you don't want so that your DH gets to live his dream.

On what planet is that ok?

If his job does not work financially for your family then tough shit he needs to make a change.

You need a whole new plan moving a bit further out of London to spend time and money commuting ON TOP of your crazy hours is not the solution.

I'm not sure how you are potentially the baddy here for killing his dream when you have been propping up a lifestyle that he simply cannot afford. Never mind that it is to the detriment of your health.

I don't know what your job is or what industry you are in but I do not believe that you get to such a senior level and have zero transferable skills or opportunities to do good fulfilling work outside London. It may not at the level you are currently working at but I bet there are options.

I don’t think you can carry on carrying the load to facilitate your dh’s dream life op. There comes a point when your needs and life need some oxygen. I would leave in your position. You have had one wake up call, you may not have another.

Given he isn’t the main breadwinner he will also need to relocate his job - it may not be what he wants but it’s not all about him.

It sounds like you have spent a long time (and a lot of emotional energy) supporting your DH's dreams. It is reasonable to ask him to support you in yours now.

A friend is in a similar position to your DH and actually commutes to a different country for his dream job (obviously not every day). Maybe your DH will have to work somewhere less prestigious, but other opportunities could open up - guest speaking, writing a book, consulting etc.

Make the move north, it's time for the next adventure.

"We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family."

I think this is where you need to question yourself and be really honest. What would it actually be like for you to make this move?

Can you just clarify what you are hoping for here? Everyone agrees you can’t keep working in your current job. Your husband can’t support the family without some income from you.

You say that there are no other jobs you could do from any home base that lets your husband do his job without overnight stays in London.

So he has to do the overnight stays in London then. Not sure what else we can help you with?

I think what people are still finding it difficult to understand is what job would you be taking if you moved up north, and does that type of job not exist in the London area? If it does, looking at the salary for that and your DH’s salary could you not afford something decent which means that your DH could carry on with his job?

If the reality is that you just want a complete break for a few years, and will settle for nothing less than a huge Victorian villa (and agreed, this isn’t going to be cheap to buy or maintain) then yes absolutely this won’t work, but that’s not what you said in your first post.

Personally I think it sounds as though you just want to move north, and if this isn’t true what you need to do is sit down with your DH and work out what you “need” vs what you “want.” i.e. you “need” a 3/4 bed house and better work balance but you “want” a nice Victorian villa which doesn’t feel like a step down. Ultimately some of the wants might have to be compromised.

What I will say though is that after this if your DH doesn’t want to move and you force the issue, it’s going to take a toll on your relationship. Maybe he will come to like the new area and appreciate your family and the help. But maybe he will resent you, miss the kids and either you’ll grow apart or he will have to give up work completely and miss that.

If I were your husband and my partner was more or less forcing me to move north to where their family are (partly because they want a nice big impressive house), and either spend half the week away from my kids or give up a job I absolutely loved then, regardless of the money, I would hate it. And I think that the only way I would get my head around it is if we had together explored all the other options and worked this through first.

Could your family move north @ChickenChitty and DH arrange hybrid working so he is only away 2-3 days at a time? There used to be a site called Monday-Friday or something where people who worked in London had a regular lodging there but didn’t use it at the weekends. It would be a settled base but a lot cheaper than a small flat for him or hotels.

Sorry I come from professional services in the City and I don’t believe that there are REALLY no options for hybrid/part time in your profession with some but manageable paycut (not dramatic). Have you actually tried looking?