Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

I can’t afford to take a pay cut and still live in london. I want to take a big pay cut and move to a much cheaper area that is neither a suburb of London nor a commuter town to London. Why is that so hard for people to understand and accept

And that would be absolutely fine if your DH’s work wasn’t London based.

Without that the whole thread discussion would be about where to move in the north not if.

It’s all very well saying you want x, y, z but if your DH’s job changed for whatever reason - what would you do if he had to work 5 days a week in London? Even 3 would be expensive enough. That’s literally the only reason posters have suggested compromising on somewhere commutable for his work. Otherwise you may swap your stress for his and land up in a different kind of bind.

DH’s job will never change to 5 days a week - he’s a freelancer and can pick and choose his hours, but there is unlikely ever to be enough work for him to do it full time, even if he wanted to do that, which he wouldn’t, because it’s only one aspect of what he does and the rest (which involves travel or wfh) is also hugely important to him. It’s also a termtime only job (short terms) so a max of 30 weeks a year (in practice it’s usually less) and will never be more than that. I’ve explained this already a few times.

I’ve carried all the stress for the family now for many years so I have reached the point where I think it’s reasonable to ask DH to commute twice a week (or once with an overnight stay) for half the year. For those who have asked, he’s been away traveling for the last 10 days so we haven’t been able to discuss anything properly.

Yes you have already explained 30 weeks and 2 days a week, that’s understood. But I can’t guess the details as I don’t even know what industry it is. However you have been clear that his career Londoncentric,

It doesn’t make a lot of sense to say you’ve been stressed for x years now it’s his turn to be stressed out instead of compromising on something that’s low stress for both.

But @Aluna its not low stress for me to live in or near London, that’s the whole point. I can’t downscale the job enough to still be able to afford these areas with the good school for the kids as well, as they’re still expensive, so I’m still doing a stressful job, except now with a commute on top. To me, that is worse than what my life is like
now.

You wanted a house for around 600k so there’s no mortgage. Someone posted an example near Guildford which was a decent size.

You could find work in the local area, and your DH has the commute.

Doesn’t that fit all the criteria?

Im not going to comment on moving/stressful jobs etc but I would caution on any major life changes while still recovering from the trauma of the surgery.

yes that was me- I won’t comment anymore , as I think Op maybe has made up her mind slready
I also did similar in Twickenham - nicely done up too and around £750k - both areas with decent schools and would indeed give the OP multiple options jobwise - a Twickenham house would give you a 25 minute commute- you could in all honesty have similar distances in Manchester or Leeds in nice areas - I was trying to think of everyone including DH and kids and just give OP options, because living somewhere like that with a small mortgage would give options for scaling down Ops job to something way more doable - and also mean she can continue currently till she finds that kind of role without impinging on DHs job - I think OP there may be more to this though -are you thinking you will get somewhere fora lot less? Like £350k etc and bank the cash? in which case yes you would need to move a fair old way away - and maybe lower your expectations somewhat house wise too - big terraces , semis and detached can still be ££££ in what you might consider very nice areas further north - they are not all cheap as chips if you want to have good facilities on tap, an attractive area and lots of space -my friend did similar , but then spent only £125k less than she would have in Surrey or Berks etc and then struggled jobwise when the job she moved for ended - I’m also wondering if there’s an element of thinking of going it alone? I may be wrong , but you don’t seem to be factoring in your Hs career much at all - it may not pay well but clearly will mean a lot to him . I think his views are absolutely key if your marriage matters to you -

If the OP happened to be interested in that ‘Twickenham’ house I think it’s important to be realistic about the commute. It’s 0.3 miles from Whitton station, from where the fastest trains are 30 minutes into Waterloo. Obviously a commute has to factor in all the door-to-door elements so 25 minutes is never going to happen, even if OP works in Waterloo itself and doesn’t have to take a tube from there. It’s also not ‘literally 18 minutes’ into Waterloo even on the fast line from Twickenham these days (and Twickenham station is almost 2 miles from the house you suggested).

There aren’t any investment banks in Guildford. The OP would have to commute to London which she doesn’t want to do because the whole point of wanting to move on from burnout is to adjust her own working patterns. So this idea would be worse than just staying where they are.

The idea of moving to the north (having been through the same thought process myself) would be to have a much nicer house mortgage free. Not a worse house with a big commute on top.

She doesn’t necessarily want a job in an investment bank or anything similar, - that’s the point of moving - OP says she is prepared to look at more mundane average earning jobs- and that area Guildford/woking still has a lot of that kind of corporate work/head offices/uni/hospital etc - as well as possibility of maybe hybrid jobs out of London for far less commuting - the point is that kind of area allows for maximum flexibility of options ( same as Twickenham which I also posted a nice house for)and H to keep his roles too without doing the overnighters/long expensive commutes and upending family life as she knows it . My view was showing it is perfectly possible to buy family homes for her and with good schools and also allow a downshift without necessarily moving ‘up north’ and just a small mortgage, if what she is saying about the equity she has being correct, but it’s really up to OP at the end of the day and hopefully her H is part of the thought process- if it was the other way around I would expect the wife and career to be part of that thought process.

The whole point is to get out of her current city career - that can be done as well in Guildford as the north.

Yep I get that as gave lived in that neck of the woods , but it may well be OP gets a hybrid role too , as she wants to downshift, I wasn’t looking at it from doing a 5 days week merchant banking job - just allows for flexibility if a job is 2 days a week maybe or she gets a job in Richmond or Staines etc! thing is the same could easily be true in Manchester or Leeds , say OP fancies Altrincham- can be at least 50 mins to an hour door to door - a lot of the nicer areas to live in Leeds and Manchester that I think OP would be interested in are a fair way out if commuting to the centre

It’s not clear if being mortgage free allows OP to be a SAHP on one salary of her DH? Staying in SE would allow her DH to be home with the family all week which might be a benefit if he also travels a bit for his job already. Then there are the costs of weekly commutes and hotels from his salary if they move north. Beyond the financial logistics it’s also important to consider the emotional costs of one parent who travels a bit for work already being away x number of nights per week/month - but if its only 30 weeks a year and OP’s mental and physical health has recovered then it’s certainly doable. I hope OP gets the support from her DH for her desired move and she gets some respite and recovery soon. No way to live.

There is a third option which doesn’t involve OP commuting in daily from commuter belt or DH doing a long commute to London from northern area.

Which is the family moves north and DH accepts a downgrade in his career. My understanding is that he can still do what he does out of London but it will be less prestigious and world class.

I am not sure why DH downgrading his (poorly paid) career isn’t an option?

OP does your DH share the same view of the schools? Obviously I don’t know him but the creative types I know personally seem more relaxed than corporate squares like me about secondary school quality, being of the view that it is parental input is the key.

I mention this because if the key non negotiable for you is doing a less line hours/stressful role and the moving north is to get acceptable schools with accommodation you can afford, he might argue for staying in a cheaper area of London on the basis the schools are good enough for the kids there. And he gets what he wants in being in London.

He may also point to the falling rates of London kids approaching secondary school age potentially putting more choices on the table, and that if your eldest is going into y4 (if I recall that rightly) you have two year so get in the right place for schools. And hence he may say hey no hurry, let’s not decide anything now.

I wonder if you might benefit from seeing a life coach to help you navigate a way forward. A lot of City people go through similar to you and there will be plenty of life coaches specialising in it. Making a big change after a crisis could benefit from a bit of distance help I think.

She doesn’t have to commute from the commuter belt that’s the whole point. If she can find a local job in the north then she can find one in Surrey.

That way only her DH has the commute.

I’m assuming OP is in a typical City professional job (law, finance, consulting, accounting etc) and looking to move from a City firm to a regional firm, for similar work but a bit less pressured and slightly lower pay. For a regional firm she’d need a different city. These don’t really exist in commuter towns - there’s only local high street lawyers/accountants which is a different type of work (her skills may not even be transferable to this if she is quite specialised) and much much lower pay.

Yes I’m assuming she’s in a city professional job. Her analogy was that she’s looking to move from an investment bank to a high street bank. I doubt she would use her actual career as her example so I’m assuming it’s an equivalent sector.

That being the case I don’t think it’s clear that she’s not prepared to move to a high street operation. Whether that’s possible in her industry Idk as we don’t know what it is.

There are, for example, Legal 500 law firms that operate in the SE outside London.

Yes true, she could move to a high st operation but then the problem is that commuter belt house prices tend to be inflated by London salaries and not that affordable on high st firm salaries.

Sure and that was OP’s assumption, but as a kind poster has shown above, it’s possible to get a decent size house + garden for 600k around Guildford for example.

It's best that @ChickenChitty bites the bullet, makes the changes needed whilst she can. My father had a nervous breakdown/burn out in his forties. He couldn't go back into the same job/pressure so the big money went anyway. My brother had similar a few years ago. He's changed jobs cut hours too.

She’s not a lawyer because she says that her “industry” is demanding 3-4 days a week in the office across the board and has little scope for reasonably-paid sideways moves. That is not true of City law.

There are places in London, very commutable (12 minutes into one of the main London train stations) and a 3 bed house is around £400,000

It has Good and Outstanding secondary schools.

But apparently that wasn’t what she wants

I am at a loss to see how much is really needed to live in London if you don’t have a mortgage.

I am currently on £1200 per month and from that I house an exh and 2 adult children
So all bills and shopping come out of that

There will be child care/wraparound care maybe on top depending what she does

What I think people don’t realise is quite how much people actually earn out of London compared to the central London salary

We moved out of London for several years. My salary halved dh was working on an ok salary but it never went up. I have never been so broke in my life. Everything cost more or was harder to get and then there was the amount of petrol you needed to put in your car each week just to do basic things. (No supermarket delivery, no uber eats or food delivery)

The top salary that was paid was around a third of what dh could earn in London. We moved back. Bought a house that was bigger and nearly twice as expensive as the one we moved from
Even with the bigger mortgage we had hundreds less going out each month.
We saved mainly on petrol but going out cost less, food cost less. Just about everything was the same price or cheaper.

I have watched as friends have done the same thing and come to realise that they should never have left and there were alternatives

A couple of my friends had families who said they would do childcare if they moved back. They moved back. The childcare offer was rescinded

Yes I’m very conscious of that- have some friends who moved to St Albans - so not exactly a long way out but only paid £80k less than they would have done in Kingston as an example and actually more than they would have done in Bromley or Enfield as another example for a similar modest house - yes it’s a nice area, ( we lived there ourselves at one point) decent schools, but what they hadn’t really factored in was the £10k commuting cost a year - initially it wasn’t going to be that as one had a job just going in one day a week but they lost their job and ended up with a 4 day a week commute to earn similar money . I do think being within zones gives you a very big advantage on flexibility jobwise and associated costs.- particularly if your lifestyle requires 2 incomes .