Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

Oh OP, I feel for you. I’m afraid I don’t have any bright ideas, but I’ve felt similar frustration.

London is such a trap. I live in zone 2 and love being so close to everything. My DC are settled in school and have great circle of friends locally.

but I’m a single parent and work my backside off in a stressful role to basically live in a tiny, cramped place and having to count the pennies for the privilege. Like you, I would have a big detached house mortgage free if I made the move.

I agree that commuting from a town near London is worst of both worlds. The nicest areas are almost as expensive as London, and you don’t have the same amenities.

I agree that moving to a northern city would be great.

could you afford a small studio flat in London, and a not so huge house up north? Or instead of mortgage free - have a relatively small mortgage on your big house up north and buy a small place in London. Would allow FH to work a couple of days in London and you could air bnb it the rest of the time.

i Also think you need to step back from this decision for a bit. Not forever - just give yourself 2 months of not stressing about it, and see if anything shifts.

I’d be pretty pissed at my DH if he couldn’t see I wanted a change. 60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too sorry but this sounds absolutely grim - what a waste of a life.

You need to take some
time to consider this carefully. I know people who left London as circumstances were tricky at that moment who regret it now, literal hours a day driving kids to school and activities and limited work and social options are factors . Others made the move and it’s worked for them. We stayed in london and I’m glad we did. It has been good for the kids, the proximity of friends, community, transport, opportunity as they get older have been valuable.
There isn’t a right or wrong answer, but take time to recover from your illness and weigh up what is best for your family.
Just to add, don’t discount the existence of lots of lovely neighbourhoods in zone 3/4 London with nice sized houses excellent schools and 30’min commutes. The way you describe it you are very central, so the edge bits could be more affordable for you on a lower salary - as a compromise option. If you want to gonnorth do, but the grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

OP I think you're doing the typical thing of "I hate my job I must change everything about it" when actually you probably just need to keep what you're doing, same level, and change companies to somewhere with a better work-life balance.

I work in a competitive industry in London. I moved from a toxic workplace to a better, more prestigious place where I clock off at 5pm every day and make a third more money. You don't need to downgrade your seniority or role - just move to a better job that treats you better!

Also a lot of commuter towns have excellent schools, and a 20min train commute door to door. You can get more for your money by moving further out and it won't necessarily mean a longer commute (it hasn't in my case!)

This is even worse though. As it is, his creative job means you’re also primary parent as well as big job. My resentment would be killing me, I couldn’t do my job without dh pulling his weight.

Have you told him flat out I cannot continue this job, interested to hear your suggestions?

and look for other jobs both near your parents and closer to where you are now, speak to a recruiter to get a view of the landscape. Your dh may need to take some time off or cancel some travel to be the support at home for you to fit this in.

OP said she lives in Zone 3 already!

No easy solution but as your salary covers the cost of the mortgage and you are no longer able to do it, changes have to be made. And, in some ways, you have to make the decision for your family, as doesn't sound like he's prepared to.
I appreciate he's in a very niche job and doesn't want to move away but he may not have the luxury of saying I want everything to stay as it is. It isn't sustainable.
Would you be prepared to split with him if won't accept life is going to change because you are no longer able to maintain the lifestyle he's become accustomed to? As I think bottom line, that's where you will be heading.

It is a clear that your current life isn’t sustainable. I can sense the stress in your posts to be honest.

the only way for changes to work are for DH to take in the commute to his job. Which given. He is limited in its location but it’s his dream, then he must do that or consider the impact on his family more carefully.

you should deff rule out other locations that have shorter commute to London as a compromise, where you can work. Have you considered coastal locations?

the stability of the whole family is at risk given your health. You still sound at burn out levels, you havnt recovered yet. Honestly DH needs to take his head out of the sand.

I'm struggling with your London maths a bit OP. You sound like you're on big corporate money? My DH also has a lower paid passion job. I'm the main earner and it's a good salary, but public sector. We've got the same amount of equity in our house and that's really plenty to live on in London and the schools are great/absolutely fine where we live which also has a short commute. Most of our friends are similar public sector/creative jobs

If you want to move out of London then all power to you but contrary to Mumsnet wisdom you don't have to pull in 250k in London to have a nice life and we've got the best schools in the country. So you absolutely could have a more modest lifestyle in London given there are plenty of terraces around for 900k or so. If you don't want to, that's fine of course but I wonder if you've recalibrated what a normal income/lifestyle in your head is after being a high earner. You would definitely be able to work less intensely in London if you wanted. The moving out comes with compromise as well and we definitely have friends who regret it or are now stuck in a job they hate because the labour market is so poor.

And definitely do it before your kids are teens!

The bottom line is that your husband wants a lifestyle he unfortunately can't afford. So he's going to have to compromise.

It's unfair for your life to be completely shit just so that his can be great in every way.

But it sounds as if they split the husband won't be able to live in London anyway...

Thanks for the replies!

@MxCactus unfortunately jobs in my industry with better work life balances are much lower paid - there’s a direct correlation between pay and hours expectations - so I can’t just “‘move to a different job that treats me better” without having to also move to a cheaper house. We really need to upgrade our area within London to be near a better school for the kids so this is the problem.

@Zone4flaneur I may be wrong but if you’re living in what sounds like a similar area in similar ish house but on public sector salary, I can only assume you’re older/bought earlier and/or had help to do it. It’s our mortgage that makes things so hard despite my salary. My neighbours range from teachers/social workers/hairdressers to people working in the city like me and it all depends on exactly when they bought. I’ve been looking all around London at secondary schools and haven’t found anywhere we could realistically move (ie with a secondary school I’d choose for the kids) that’s cheaper than where we live atm. We might just have different ideas of what good looks like at secondary perhaps.

Id also just say in response to some other posts that we are not living a luxury lifestyle now - we already live in a zone 3 terrace (just happens to be well connected to the station where I work), drive an old car, holiday in the U.K., we shop in Morrisons…I’ve got a very good pension and otherwise our money goes on the house and (up until recently) a nanny.

@Mumofoneandone I absolutely don’t want to split with DH! I love him and want to spend more time with him. We are constantly tag teaming at the moment so don’t have much time together. None of my possible options give us that.

OP most people who work in London don't live close to work and some degree of commuting is perfectly normal.

There are plenty of nice, safe areas to live in the outskirts of London or nearby towns.

If you get a job with sensible hours you won't have to come home late or work weekends so that will benefit your kids.

Most people who work in or near the capital don't make a six figure salary but still manage to have a decent lifestyle.

@Gardenandseawitch which areas are these and do they also have excellent schools?

I’ve been round and round this on the thread but I’ll say it again - there is nowhere commutable that is cheap enough to enable me to take a big enough pay cut to make the commute worth it. Im
30 minutes door to door from work at the moment and it has all sorts of benefits for the kids, especially when I have to be in the office 4 or sometimes 5 days a week.

I'm with you - I always thought moving out of london and commuting back in was the worst of all worlds. Aside from schools, which are mainly very good in the commuter belt. Obviously many people disagree because lots do it!

Plus, it's not that much cheaper. It is a bit but equally your expectations change not being central so you buy somewhere bigger and almost end up back where you were, albeit with a bit more space but a worse commute. I've spent hours trying to square this circle and never made it work, so we left.

jobs in my industry with better work life balances are much lower paid - there’s a direct correlation between pay and hours expectations - so I can’t just “‘move to a different job that treats me better” without having to also move to a cheaper house. We really need to upgrade our area within London to be near a better school for the kids so this is the problem.

You’ve mentioned a need for some sort of local “professional services job market” if you move to a place that
(a) has houses you could buy mortgage free
(b) decent schools
(c) max an hour commute for your husband

I’m still struggling to understand why you’d need to get a job locally when you could take one of these lower paid London jobs and work hybrid, or even not work at all for a while.

Is that not just a closer-to-London equivalent of the “high street professional services” style job that you imagine yourself doing in the North , but with the added benefit of your husband being able to get easily to and from his job?

I would definitely make changes. You know it’s right after your health scare but it won’t be easy. However I think it will be worth it in the end. Your life particularly sounds very stressful and when lying on your deathbed (hopefully a long time in the future). Are you going to remember all the material objects and big London house? No, it’ll be the experiences & memories with your children, family & friends. We had a similar scare to our high earning lifestyle and we were much happier with a more simple life after that. Taught us happiness definitely isn’t related to income. I think you need to find a way to enjoy life more, rather than just being a worker bee toiling endlessly to keep a pack of cards up. It’s a trap so many of us fall into.

We made a move similar to what you are considering. Moved to a more northern city, bought our house mortgage free with equity from our London place, I left my London job and work part time locally for way less than I was on in London and in a less snr role, DH kept his London job (and salary!) and goes down there to the office once or twice a month, it’s 2 hrs on the train. But he’s happy to do this as he likes his life here - doesn’t sound like your husband would be?

life is slower, cheaper and we have more time together as a family. But the grass is not always completely greener on the other side. it did take time to settle and start over in a new place. I had a few friends here already but DP didn’t so has had to put himself out there a bit to find some. As he’s in London often he catches up with friends there. It’s been a great place to raise the kids but it’s a bit dull here so I’m hoping to move somewhere more buzzy once the kids have flown the nest as I’m a city person at heart.

you’ll need to work the finances out as travelling to London regularly (by train especially) is expensive plus factor in any costs of staying overnight.

Do it! If I could leave I would do so in a heartbeat.

This.

I don’t know why people keep insisting this is the solution.

Anywhere commutable to London within 30 mins attracts a high premium on property prices. Anywhere that is significantly cheaper would be so for a very good reason and certainly not provide decent schools.

Once you move out and have to factor in the price of a season ticket - which can be in the region of 5k per year - and the stress of an unreliable train service where delays, cancellations and so on can particularly affect evenings at home with the kids, it really isn’t worth it when property prices in the zone 5/6 suburbs and home counties are not really any different to the zone 3 suburb of London where the OP already lives.

The only real gain would be in moving away from the SE altogether and seeing that both OP and her DH’s family are up North, it seems a no brainer to want to go back up there, benefit from cheaper property prices and family support, while having some breathing space to take a break and work out what comes next.

Her DH can commute from some parts of the North practically in the same time it can take to get across London some mornings, with how fast the trains are into Kings Cross/Euston!

This crossed with my last post. You seem to be imagining a daily commute for you, on your current hours. But have you properly spoken to recruiters about other jobs you could do, hybrid or remote? You seem very open to a totally different style job in the North yet quite inflexible in your job thinking when there is a chance of still working for a London employer?

I lived in London 12 years and went slowly mad. What seems exciting in your twenties becomes a smelly concrete hell when you get older. I moved to the country years ago. Love it. Never looked back.

I agree with others, commuting into London is the worst of both worlds. Looking at house prices anywhere near commutable even in the home counties is still very expensive and won’t relieve the financial pressure. Plus longer commuting on an unreliable transport system. If you do it, I think relocating elsewhere would be better.

Because people keep talking about hybrid/part time as if those jobs exist for everyone, when I’ve said a few times now that the norm now in my industry (even lower paid versions) is 3-4 days in office if that office is in London (no idea if this is the same up north, but if it was, we would live near to my work).

There isn’t a scenario where I could give up work if we lived in London commuterville I don’t think because DH doesn’t earn enough and those areas are still expensive.