Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

Then I think a mindset change is needed. Equating success with money and house size is your first mistake - isn’t happiness, freedom and a lack of stress more important?

My partner and I recently came into some money and could’ve afforded to significantly upsize from our SE London one bed flat (no kids). Instead we paid off the mortgage and decided to stay here to make our monthly living costs incredibly cheap, meaning we can both work part time in our passion careers and take off months at a time to travel. To me, that is success. No, the flat isn’t my dream home but if everything else in my life looks exactly how I want it and I have flexibility many people can only dream of, it’s something I’m more than happy to compromise on. I think you might also have a skewed baseline of what the minimum acceptable standard of living is because those properties I showed you look to me like spacious homes that with a renovation could be lovely, and the maisonette looks very nicely done.

They can't stay in London unless the OP keeps working in her job or a similarly salaried one. A family home in a decent part of London with good state secondary schools is incredibly expensive. and they only have 600k equity. That probably means adding a £1m mortgage on top (at least) to be in a place that is 30mins commute to London and has the schools. a £1m repayment mortgage over a 20year term are going to be about 6k a month. Assuming the OP earns 200k and her OH earns 30k (I am guessing on the salaries based on what the OP has said). They may take home 11k between them assuming some pension contributions. They are not exactly living a life of luxury under these circumstances and crucially - the OP has an incredibly stressful job (which has provided a nice life for all of them for many years) and she doesn't want to do it any more. It might be disappointing for her DP but he can't afford it and he can't expect the OP to make herself sick so he can live a dream that he is unable to support himself.

Utter garbage. There are thousands of family homes in London for significantly less than a million, they’re just not big enough or in bougie enough areas for a certain type of person to consider. When people say “I can’t afford anything under 1 million in London” or “you need to earn 250k minimum to live in London” what they really mean is “I refuse to look anywhere other three areas I deem acceptable therefore I’m pretending the entirety of the rest of London, where many people live happily for much less, doesn’t exist”

Of course they exist, but do they have decent local state schools and do they feel like an acceptable compromise in terms of space and local environment? Not to the OP.

ETA - I actually meant add a £1m mortgage to their 600k equity so plan to spend 1.6m on a house. We used to live in Highgate and I always reckoned you'd need to spend £2m to get a decent family home in the area.

That’s fine, but it’s disingenuous to say that staying in London is impossible when the reality is you’re not willing to make any compromises.

You’ve woken up, don’t ignore that. You’ve still got some of your children’s childhoods left and you need to make the most of it, and you’re in a position to do so. Fortunately there are lots of northern locations that you can commute to London from. I’d take the position of telling him you’re handing your notice on x date, this is the budget monthly after that, you’re doing something else and that you want to move to this idyllic setup you’ve planned. He needs to counter offer, essentially, and he can no longer rely on your income.

From personal experience, I did move away from London and it made my creative career almost impossible. My husband also lost all his socialising and activities, there’s little up here. If I were in your shoes, I’d be looking for a compromise that gets you the mortgage free house etc but is within a stone’s throw of London.

Nothing's impossible is it? I would say the OP is already making compromises - anyone living in London makes compromises about the amount of space they have, for example. The OP also works 60-70 hours a week to earn her high salary - sounds like a big compromise to me.

Yes agree. In my old SW London area, excellent state schools primary and secondary, a lot of families with creative careers did live there- but they lived in maisonettes with small gardens, ex-council houses etc. They didn’t have a 5/6 bed, period features, garden, Audi, etc (that was reserved for the investment bankers!) but they had nice lives and didn’t have to do a massive commute, ridiculous hours or live apart from their partners for half the week so for them it was worth it.

The OP isn't expecting a 5/6 bed house with period features. Surely even a modest 3 bed house in SW London near good schools is going to be north of a £1m?

I think you need to look at what your actual plan would be - start applying for jobs, see what the salary would be, look at a few houses, think about what you’d be paying for your husband to go back and forth to London as often as it sounds like.

Dream jobs are amazing yes. Creative industries are so important and I believe vital to society. But dreams and mortgages and kids aren’t always sustainable. I don’t think many parents of young children can literally have it all. I certainly never dreamed of being a middle manager at a university but I ‘did’ want to prioritise being home every evening and having a nice home to raise my family. Your husband seems to want to compromise nothing and have everything and that just might not work out forever.

I do think though some very practical information would be useful. So many people looking for work so if I was him, I’d want a real plan before thinking about it properly.

Who said you have to be in SW? I’ve just linked three “modest three beds” in a perfectly nice area of SE for 500k and under (admittedly needing renovation, but it sounds like OP has the budget to do that)

No, where I used to live, a 3 bed ex council started at around £350k, a period maisonette from about 600k. Now of course there would be compromises but I do know families who had 2/ 3 teens in these properties and lived there happily. There’s also the option of a house in a cheaper area, like Sutton etc, but the OP doesn’t seem to want to do this because it feels like a step down.

Yes exactly @gotmyselfintoapickle

@Heronwatcher just to give you some examples. Ealing/Acton has been mentioned on this thread as an area with good state schools. These houses are similar to the one I currently live in (mine is worth a lot less due to area):

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/162865547 - £1.5m

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/89658726 - £1.495m

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/90281208 - £1.495m.

I mentioned SW because the PP did.

@thesealion the state schools in the area you linked to aren’t great - this will be why family homes are relatively affordable.

I’m not convinced she is compromising on the space and property front having just sent links to three perfectly normal three bed properties (two in need of renovation, but bigger than the one that doesn’t need reno) and she called them a downgrade and that living there would feel like a colossal failure. That’s not someone who’s compromising - that’s someone who’s lost touch with what’s normal life for many people.

It's not about 'feeling like a step down'.

The market prices houses and areas. Less good houses and less good areas are cheaper, because they are worse in ways that the vast majority of people acknowledge. Obviously the OP could move to a worse / cheaper area (although I suspect the schools would pose an issue), anything is possible but that doesn't mean it seems like a reasonable compromise.

My honest view is there has to be a halfway compromise here -this really depends how much equity you have too . how about looking in places like market Harborough or Newbury as examples - £450k will get you a lovely 3 or 4 bed semi or detached in either -£550 and you will get a very big detached 4 bedder.. it can be similar money in nicer areas ‘up north’ - the idea it’s peanuts isn’t true unless you live somewhere that’s cheap for a reason and not easy for commuting . You should focus on Places that are easily commutable for both of you and still very pleasant places to live and you get more for your money - . Once moved ( and stay put in job till you move) you can then look maybe for something either less stress and less money in London or a hybrid role or even something closer to home, unless your are a city trader /banker there will be other roles you will have transferable skills for .. I think your kids are going to have to lump it I’m afraid and adapt if it’s not working for you - you just say you can’t afford it and want to be able to be around a little more -.I suspect if you move up north you will find it’s costing similar if you want to live in prestige areas and more of a faff if London needs to be gone to regularly ( by either of you)!and yes your Hs job matters- it’s probably part of his identity , even if it pays a lot less than yours - we have got lots of London refugees here in Bath and one reason they come, besides being lovely is it’s on the London train line every half hour ( if needed) you can still get a nice 3 bed semi for about £560k , state schools are excellent, decent hospital and more bars, restaurants, theatres etc plus jobs in Bristol, Bath, Swindon or Reading etc if needed. I think you need to think sideways and not necessarily opting out work altogether or moving up north given your husbands job too. I’ve not suggested here as it’s still 1hr 20 commute and you get more for your money in the areas I suggested- but yes if you can go to £600 or £650 and it would reduce the mortgage I would suggest places like Bath or even somewhere like Guildford ( also has a lot of high level work locally) - so plenty going on and it has plenty for your kids - I would honestly think sideways on this

Or just has different priorities to you?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/88859976#/media?id=media0&channel=RES_BUY

Ok so this isn’t my old area but my good friends lived in this road, it’s Wimbledon, basically in catchment for 1 good and 2 outstanding non-selective state secondaries (one you have to do an exam for but it’s not selective). Very middle class, lots of independent shops etc.

Now obviously it’s not massive, not a period terrace and some people won’t like the look of it, plus the garden is small. But it’s a stone’s throw from Wimbledon common and it sounds like OP could be mortgage free.

Not saying that anyone should or shouldn’t move to something like this, that’s a personal decision, but surely it’s an option if everything else works? If the OP or her DH could put in a bit more money they they could afford something with a bit more “charm”.

If the priority is living in a huge swish house and making loads of money at the expense of your health and wellbeing I’d say it’s one that needs reviewing.

I dont understand the appeal of a halfway house compromise. London is London, i wouldnt want to be living somewhere random within commuting distance of it when I could carry on living in actual London or have an exciting fresh start somewhere where I have family in an entirely different part of the country. It sounds depressing.

Huh? She started this thread because she doesn't want to make loads of money at the expense of her health. She wants to move out of London to be close to family, with more space for the kids and so that she can quit her job.

Definitely no help to do it! I'm a teeny bit older than you but not much. What we did do is move to an area that was deeply unfashionable but has become very popular hence being able to increase equity. So that's your compromise to enable you to earn less- not living in a super bougie area (but we get the short commute and good schools - I'm not sure how they could be better schools but I am anti-selection which may differ from you).

You definitely don't need to live in a £2 million house in Hampstead like a Pp claimed (I don't think you do!). £600k of equity is a good chunk of cash in SE London.

Would agree that moving out to a commuter town is worst of all worlds, once you get past zone 6 fares go bonkers and houses cost the same. You could try somewhere like south Croydon which has fast trains and bigger houses. But there are compromises all round aren't there, whatever you choose. You can't all have all the things.

I agree with you, @HotCrossBunplease. Op I also live in north London and I understand what you mean about schools.

A few years ago we considered leaving London and DH would have to commute. Around £800k would have been our budget (our life changed since and we do have a more expensive properly than that and we remained in London).

I had a quick look at the areas we considered and you could still buy an equivalent house to the terrace you described in London for that. And then you could take some time off to settle yourselves in and figure out your next step.

Lewes: www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/90638904

Hove: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/174778343

Haselmere: www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/174347234

Tring: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/173543558

It might be that you’re homesick for your hometown and want to go, but you can certainly live in places where it’s possible for your husband to commute a few days a week for his work and for you to take a moment to breathe before you decide what’s next.