Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

I’m also getting annoying with your disingenuous insistence that the ONLY way to afford living in London AT ALL is to earn high six figures when the vast majority of Londoners do not earn that and have perfectly nice lives. You are free to choose the kind of lifestyle you want, of course, and if you’re unhappy with it you should of course make changes, leave London, whatever works for you. But the fact remains that a much cheaper life in London is possible, you just don’t want it. That’s fine, but it’s your choice! That’s what’s winding people up and leading us to say you need a reality check. I’m sure having kids adds several thousand onto your monthly outgoings but again, plenty of people earning less make it work. I’m not older than you, I only bought in London within the last 5 years and no I didn’t have any help.

if you are earning/have earned what you say you have and the house cost as you say, I know how much a London nanny costs as well, then you must have significant savings

i think you’ve boxed yourself in and need to lay everything out in front of you including career prospects for you and your husband, schooling options and savings/assets. You are clearly in a very strong position to launch off from

I couldn’t stay in a job with the pressure you are experiencing just to live in an expensive but mediocre house in an overrated city. Your health and well being is more important than any job or house. I’d make plans to move and buy the bigger house. Imagine how much happier you would be being mortgage free with lots of space and the freedom to just ‘breathe’. You’re on a hamster wheel at the moment and it sounds exhausting. I’d get off at the first opportunity.

‘All very expensive areas of London though.’

I’m sure with £700k of equity you could find a nice property in Bromley or you could downsize your job and get a mortgage for say £200k and trade up. If you’re a lawyer, you could move into an in house role and still be paid well or apply for a government ombudsman type role - almost fully work from home but only about £65k. Bromley has very good, almost comp schools and a boys and girls super selective grammar (competitive) which are amongst the best in the country outperforming most independent schools. This sort of option would allow you both to have what you want. I suspect you want a bit of a spectacular house which might be clouding your judgement? You really don’t need all of the whistles and bells to have a great family life and you’re putting yourself under immense pressure to achieve what you think you ‘should’ have maybe?

Otherwise, tell your dh that your health is being ruined and you want to make a fresh start up north. You’ve supported the family for a long time, to your detriment, and now he needs to step up and support you for a bit in the future. Marriage is about give and take.

Leeds and Manchester will offer a wide jobs market and nice areas to live with good schools.

OP I earn £100k, my husband earns £150k both in London. I live a 25min commute into the city in the suburbs. Our state schools are outstanding, so is the local secondary, we live in a five bed detached for 1.1m, you can get a 4-bed detached for 800k. The area is a bit undiscovered, but do look - these places exist. They're not in central London though, they require a 25min commute in (which is less than my previous commute in central London tbh). You definitely have options!

Another option OP is as others said something on London peripheries which gives you lots of options career wise , plus the good schools too if you pick the right area- you would only need a smallish mortgage for something like this ( below)!nicely done up 4 bed house in Twickenham - and it literally is 18 minutes into Waterloo - and without huge commute costs. I just think you need to be honest with yourself- if it’s that you want a big flash pretty detached house and relatively mortgage free or want to be closer to family , then that’s fine but probably will involve going up north , but do balance up there may be less opportunities for anything you would want to do even less stressful shorter hours ones, and it will be an expensive time consuming fag for your h unless he does something different altogether -

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/172428800

@thesealion - can I ask why you’ve been so hostile towards me over so many posts?

I’ve never said it’s only possible to live in London on a very high salary. What I have said is that areas with good schools are expensive (not a controversial statement) and that I want my children to go to a good secondary school (also shouldn’t be controversial).

To state the obvious, not everyone who lives in London is in the same position with the same options and priorities as me, so what other people do really isn’t a big concern for me. My priorities are not a comment on other people’s choices.

I’ve been working really hard for a really long time, and have overcome a lot of obstacles - pretty sure that if I’d come from a wealthier background/been a man/hadn’t had my children I would almost certainly be a lot more senior and well-paid than I am now - I just feel like it’s been an uphill battle for literally my whole life, and recently I nearly died, so I’m trying to work out ways to change things that don’t negatively impact my children, by which I mean changing their existing set up for the worse (again, shouldn’t be too controversial?).

Where do you live if you don’t mind me asking? (Feel free to DM)

I understand what you want and why, but is it really available in the north in a price range thst will enable you to be mortgage free?

Where are you looking at that has good local professional job opportunities without a significant commute, excellent secondaries, good local ammenities and good transport links to London for your husband? Im not being snidey - just genuinely curious. Non-selective secondaries even in affluent areas of the north often dont have the same level of attainment as the SE and areas with these characteristics whilst cheaper thsn down south are still pricey. Im not casting shade on your wish list or the north (i live there), i am just wondering about the types of areas you are looking at.

Yes I think what people are a bit nonplussed about is that for you it seems to be a choice of Richmond/ Hampstead or “the north”, for your next move, without looking at anywhere in between. Whereas lots of people, including very high earners who have had health problems/ difficulties in other areas find a compromise somewhere in between (geographically and metaphorically) especially when they have a partner who needs and wants to work in London.

Part of this, I suspect, is that you are looking for things (school/ nursery/ area) that are on paper “perfect” which is just not possible however rich you are or however hard you’ve worked. For example, was there really no other nursery in your area (Zone 3) you could have sent your kids to instead of getting a nanny? And don’t think that you absolutely must have a school that is “amazing” on paper, often happy and well supported kids will do as well, if not better, in a school which is basically fine (by which I mean sends a good number of kids to a Russell group uni, but not necessary 20/30 to Oxbridge every year). And in terms of housing you do seem to have a different view of what counts as a “bog standard terrace” to most.

It’s almost as though you feel that anything less than “amazing on paper” would be a failure. But I really would advise looking at a few areas properly in terms of houses (get some viewings of things that are more affordable), schools (go to some open days in September, look at things like destinations of 6th formers), jobs (register with a recruitment consultant) etc before you make such a big move. Surely it would be better for everyone including your kids if both parents get a decent shot at being happy?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/90104139#/streetView?channel=RES_BUY

Found this, right next to station, quiet cul de sac, definitely excellent secondary especially the boys school. Excellent to include academics and extracurricular for a state comp. The primary is good enough too. At least by my standards.
There is some connection with the estate agent listed for this house, but no chain and what seems like not ideal photos. Lots of sports facilities nearby too.

I reckon you can find houses like this in nice areas of London just a bit further out and on a train line rather than tube. It would mean changing jobs to something in your field but more manageable and more flexible. I would buy something where you could extend in the future, if you wanted to.
This one might be a little pricey, so it’s meant as an example of being very close to transport and in catchment for great comps. I think you would pay 200k more in London suburbia than parts of the North but it might pay back in saved travel costs/job opportunities for kids in future. They grow up so quickly. Suburbia will be safe and less “cool” but also more steady for your DC potentially. House price appreciation also tends to be slower in the suburbs.

Also in the property section of MN there was a house in Charlton/SE for a good price 650k in catchment of Leigh Academy which is meant to be good, if you are willing to compromise on house size! It was a small 3 bedder with a bus right outside the house and is more central than Beckenham.
Where do your DH’s creative friends all live? That might be a good starting point.

You can get a perfectly nice flat for under 800k in catchment for Camden School for Girls. Very easy commute to most parts of London, close enough to cycle and cut all travel costs. After a while you could move a bit further out to a house but you'd be able to keep the school place.
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/165371258#/?channel=RES_BUY

@Heronwatcher it wasn’t just the poor quality of the local nurseries, though that was a major factor, but also the fact that our jobs made using a nursery difficult or impossible - the flexibility of having a nanny able to stay a bit later or look after the kids when they’re sick was essential when I was working round the clock and DH was away. With no family support at all I also really valued another consistent care giver in the kids lives - we had the same nanny for 5 years and she was more than worth every penny.

Ive never mentioned Richmond or Hampstead. All I’ve said is I want the kids to go to a good school and I don’t want a long commute. I have not found (and no one has been able to suggest) an area of London that fits the bill that is cheap enough to enable me to downscale the job without sacrificing the kids home environment. All of these “middle grounds” involve longer journeys for me (4x per week, regardless of the pay cut I’m taking) with not enough discount on the house price.

I am obviously going to have to make some compromises but Im not wildly unreasonable in my expectations given that what I want is achievable in every other city in the U.K..

@Araminta1003 DH’s peers either do not have children or come from wealth (really the only way you can survive doing what he does). There is literally no one in our position who I know. I will have a look at Charlton.

@Liannie we’ve got a boy.

Do you maybe just want to go home?

My grandparents emigrated to Canada in the 1920s, separately. Met and got married. Had 4 children. Then my grandfather insisted on coming back in 1937. My grandmother didnt want to but she did it. To say it was a disaster is an understatement, and my grandfather knew it the minute they docked.

Anyway, there was something pulling him back in the face of all logic. Do you simply feel that pull?

So out of interest , (and I’m curious, ) why would Twickenham as I posted below not fit the bill! Really quick in, decent schools?

You don’t get much for 800k from Twickenham - Teddington & that line is very slow.

New Malden may be better value - 20 mins to Waterloo.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/90099807

It didn’t seem quick in when I checked - it’s about 1.5hrs from twickenham station to my current workplace in the city with multiple changes according to Google maps (so couldn’t even use the time to work), and it’s also more expensive than where I live now. I’m planning to move jobs but nothing is going to bring the journey time down significantly as jobs tend to be clustered in the city/more central. If we moved there we’d be somewhere significantly smaller and I’d see my kids a lot less than I do now.

Hello
your thread come to mind - there’s someone here trying to sell their house in Blackheath looks really nice - apparently good secondary schools and it is commutable to the The City with a 15minute train to London Bridge from Blackheath station…..

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/5557381-no-offers-after-months-on-the-market-are-we-house-blind?page=1

But if you change job from city to whatever type you were intending to look for in the north, cut your mortgage - then you wouldn’t be going into the city anyway.

Im not planning to change my profession, just get a less intense version of it. In London, the less intense versions are still in broadly the same location as where I work now, and if I still live in London I can’t cut my income by that much. This is the whole problem.

The new Malden house you linked is lovely obviously but it’s only £200k cheaper than my house now (so I’d still have a c.£400k mortgage), it would be a big compromise for whichever child drew the short straw on bedroom, as there are only 2 good size ones, and my commute would more than double from 1 hour to over 2 hours per day. It’s not enough of a change to be worth it for me.

Do you have 3 kids? Because the third bedroom in the new Malden house is 11 x 7 which is a really good size for a kids’ bedroom- that’s a small double.

And if your less intense version of your job is one end of London what you need to be looking at is the version of New Malden or a similar vibe (bigger families, decent state schools) closest to where you work. There are areas like that all round London so you just have a good look at the one closest to your work.

In fact in your position why don’t you do a name change, and do a new Mumsnet post with a budget and requirement for good state secondary schools within say 45 min of X area of London. You’ll get loads of replies. Of course if you look into a few areas and nothing clicks then fine, the north it is, but at least you’ve tried to get something where your DH could travel to work.

I’ve got 2 @Heronwatcher - have to admit I didn’t get into the measurements of that house - from the floor plan 2 of them are twice the size of the third, and the fact there is no photo is always a bit of a warning sign. It’s too expensive and too far away anyway.

I have already done the search you describe - at length, over years - and there is nowhere. If there was some unicorn area that had a short commute to the city, cheap houses and excellent schools (by which I mean good results, diverse, not crazy strict) we would know about it…and it wouldn’t stay cheap for long.

It’s like the old saying about tradesmen - you can have 2 out of quick, cheap and good but not all 3.

or ask ChatGPT

I dont understand why so many posters are trying to keep OP in London. It can't just be about her dh work.

@ChickenChitty sell up and leave London! I wished we'd done it sooner.