Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

Are people taking this personally like they re bristling at OP rejecting their home counties commuterworld or something?

I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t think that posters are taking OP’s preferences personally, but I think some perceive a move north in this particular instance as potentially unwise.

My perspective is that if DH’s job was wholly transferable to the north or operable from anywhere - then a move north makes 100% sense. No ties to the south, family in the area they can just relocate their whole life.

But in the circs that DH’s career is so London-focused it seems unwise to be that far and rely on commutes + overnight stays. It sounds ok on paper, but I think OP may not appreciate how disruptive it is to do it weekly. And if anything changes with DH’s job - eg he’s promoted and needs to do more days, or he’s made redundant and alternative work doesn’t offer such flexible timing - he may end up needing to be in London more. Which could get very expensive and more disruptive very quickly.

Personally I would want to be near enough to DH’s work location for him to be able to work 5 days a week there if it came to it. That doesn’t seem to make a difference to OP’s choice of work as she seems confident that her type of work can be found anywhere.

Blimey Op, there are a lot of sneery, snarling folk about, who seem to hate it when people either enjoy their current job and life or equally, see how their current life might be improved and have ambitions to do so.

good luck, I hope you and your husband get on the same page about a move soon. If you have a savings buffer, maybe you should hand your notice in sooner than later, because a move to a different city, new schools, new job for you, is a lot of work. Maybe start by renting in the new location?

good luck anyway.

I agree re state schools in Winchester and Cambridge. Another place is Tunbridge Wells which is an hour to Charing X and is a grammar area so there are excellent state schools.

Although - I think OP’s against state selection, and you won’t get much for 700k in Cambridge or TW.

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/73528486/

Direct trains from Oxford and Cambridge get to London within the hour. There’s the tube to factor in of course.

It's not as easy to find a new job as people are suggesting. The world has changed - it's hard out there. Even teaching jobs can be tricky.

And I would just just mention possible mental health issues when it comes to trading a much loved creative job for something more basic. It's not easy for many people.

I have seen so many people struggle with losing jobs that meant the world to them. It seems to affect men more - women often aren't judged the same way and find other ways to develop self worth. Other posters say well women are forever trailing around after a better paid spouse, but it's not necessarily easy for any of them.

Imo proceed with caution re the other half losing his identity through the job. An unhappy parent/partner is not ideal.

Would also like to point to an article in yesterday's Times about the unemployment rates for women in their 50s versus men - 30% versus 22%. It was part of an article about older women, previous high flyers, trying to find jobs and getting nowhere, even with basic jobs like shelf stacking. Some way off for the OP but fact is it can happen to anyone. You can end up depending on husband's income even if you were a high flyer. So make sure he still has a decent job if you can.

Reminder that his "poorly paid" job appears to earn him about £50k. So more than he would get as a full time secondary school teacher in the north. I do wonder how many of the posters sneering at his job actually out-earn him.

It’s not as simple as that - teaching jobs in specialist creative areas can often mean you can’t just flip into any teaching job - many are still very London centric ( certainly in my Hs area) and for those roles that aren’t London centric then opportunities can be few and far between as it’s a very sought after role and people don’t often leave . When one half of you works in a not very portable job you do have to think through all angles and looking at it from his angle I’m not sure I would want to move to an area that’s going to mean random chance of getting something local , huge commutes, lots of overnighters ( this starts getting really expensive too) with a partner who is really wanting to cut back enormously but I’m pretty sure will still want a very nice house in a great area for schools ( and I do get why OP wants all this) it’s not a personal thing about moving up north at all - I myself am originally, I would be more than happy to live in York or nice bits around Leeds or the Wirral or nice bits of Northumberland, but it’s a circumstances thing and in OPs case it’s not difficult to see what the issues could be - now if OP was divorcing and saying ‘what can I buy with £350k etc , it’s different story , I would tell her to go for it, especially if she was happy to move to a standard hours £45k a year job . You can’t just discount making things massively inconvenient for the other partner unless they are totally flexible minded , have a portable job , have a remote job or 100% on board about they will go and do something else -

OP did say there are other places he can teach but he’s currently teaching at the most prestigious

it isn’t that he earns badly - I had assumed around 30k but seems OP has more than first assumed (and must have a lot in savings as the house etc isn’t that much considering her earnings). It’s that he earns badly for supporting a family in London.

the finances are a bit confusing and the thread is really disjointed but I can understand wanting to live in a city rather than a commuter town. I’m from London and would always stay here but if I had ties to elsewhere I would look around there so that made a northern city make sense but if OP is happy with any city then there are lots of choices within an easier commute of London so it really comes down to where she can get a job

It’s that he earns badly for supporting a family in London.

That’s arguably true of most jobs other than the most lucrative. It’s challenging to afford London now on teacher or academic pay without family money as property is so expensive. It wasn’t always thus.

I think some people on here saw the word ‘teaching’ and thought no further than a secondary school or FE college.🙄

It is fairly clear that he is a professional performer and highly specialised teacher (or instructor) at a prestigious, possibly world leading, institution eg the Royal Academy of Music.

He not riffing a few chords in a back room, he is the creative equivalent of an Olympian or a professional sportsperson - some of them don’t earn very much but I don’t hear many people telling them to stop being so selfish and to get a better paying job?

The irony is that some people who probably pay £££ to go to concerts, performances and gigs to see his peers or pupils performing (many popular musicians are classically-trained) are so quick to dismiss him as ‘selfish’, a ‘cocklodger’ and having an ‘easy ride’.

Perhaps he is an artist or an actor rather than a musician, but the same principle holds true.

I am glad that the OP says she is proud of him because the lack of appreciation on here, for something that requires so much talent and dedication, is horrific.

The OP doesn’t seem to expect it, but it would not be reasonable to marry someone who is a performer, with all the attributes and attractions that they might hold, but then expect them to suddenly morph into an accountant when the money runs dry…Darcey Bussell is married to a banker, do you think her husband expected her to give up being a prima ballerina and get into the City for a better paying job?

Clearly a change does need to be made, as the OP was so ill, but as @ChickenChitty doesn’t want to commute I would suggest:

1. Considering a move to a London flat in the school catchment of your choice. Significantly downsizing your possessions would pay dividends and perhaps your children are heading towards the age when a garden is not so important? Some flats are astonishingly spacious and London’s quirky building stock means that there are sometimes cheaper properties with layouts that might work for a family (eg one bedroom coming off another) but might not work for sharers, so are therefore a bit cheaper per square foot. I have certainly viewed a few odd places in my time!

2. Exploring whether your DH can develop a tertiary income stream, for example remote lecturing at an overseas university, performing on cruise ships or creating content on social media.
   He should absolutely keep his job, but there is nothing wrong with earning a bit more money on the side.

@BadSkiingMum He’s definitely an academic. But music I’m not sure - my mother was a professional musician who taught at such places and music is less London-centric than some other arts. There would be the Royal Northern, Leeds Conservatoire, Royal Birmingham etc.

Also the idea that her DH should just stop being selfish and earn more. If he’s a musician he will literally have been training his whole life to be where he is now. Since he was a small child. There’s the fact that taking that away from someone is a huge deal - it’s part of his identity that being an accountant or similar just isn’t the same.

Plus you can’t just leave your career and walk into a high-paying one without significant training time, and that also comes at a financial cost.

I work in music and for some reason I don’t think this is music, think it could easily be cameraman, video guy, sound guy, something similar and yes a lot of this is London centric . .

Same here. I did not initially think it was the performing arts but more along the lines of film crew or camera/sound/lighting team or motion capture.

This is not a London house price issue and your salary is very, very far from the norm in London. This is a making expensive choices problem. Yes, I know, you won’t move to a cheaper area in London because of the schools but again, that’s your choice in ruling out good-enough schools and only accepting what you consider the best. I think people are getting exasperated because you’re framing this as the unavoidable toll of living in London, when it isn’t, it’s that you’ve chosen an expensive lifestyle. I live in London, granted my circle are all arts/media/nonprofit so probably more akin to your husband but I don’t know a single person earning 100k let alone multiples. London is as expensive as you make it.

Leave London, you sound like you'd be happier.

There are trains to London if your dh needs to be there.

We left 8 years ago, and I didn't realise how much the chaos, noise, dirtiness of London had affected me until I was well away.

We moved closer to my family (changed country) and it was the best thing and I'll always encourage people to go back to their family if they're feeling the pull.

What about somewhere like Gloucestershire- 1hr 35 on the train some of the best grammar schools in the country.Could get a beautiful house for your budget, Alot of my neighbours commute to London daily.

Dare I say it (and I haven’t RTFT yet so maybe others already did), but you have no quality of life now! And your kids don’t care what size your house is.
So I’d say do the move and rent/buy a crash pad in London for your husband if possible.
He needs to fund his commuting costs though if he wants to do that.
With you having burnt out, there already IS no quality of life.
So the only way is up, and that means getting away from what you are currently doing/what you currently have, even if this means a smaller/less nice property (whatever that means).
Some things are worth uprooting your kids for and I’d say this is one of them.

Definitely move back home. As long as your DH is happy to commute and stay the odd night over down there, then that's the best option.

My DH has had long commutes throughout his working career and done overnight stays, so I speak from experience, it's doable and if he's happy to do it, then you should definitely move.

You cannot afford to live in London without your salary, and you cannot keep working those crazy hours long-term, it's really not good for your health, so it would be unreasonable for your DH to expect you to do that to fund London living, where you no longer want to be.

But are there jobs on several hundred thousand per year
With Excellent schools and commutable to London.

How much do the trains back cost?

The OP doesn't want a job on several hundred thousand per year. That's the whole point of her thread. She's burnt out.

No idea how much the train is, but isn't her well-being as important as her husband's career?

Sorry I’m getting a bit annoyed with this now. I haven’t made expensive choices. I live in a small terraced house in a not-desirable area of zone 3 and we don’t spend much on everyday life. The only “expensive choice” I’ve made is a nanny rather than the horrible nursery near where I live, which failed its last ofsted. you don’t have children so may have limited appreciation for the costs involved in that.

It’s really easy for people in London who are older and bought when property was cheaper and interest rates were lower to say it’s totally fine. My next door neighbours (same house) paid £300k less than we did, 3 years earlier. Their mortgage is half the size and they work in normal 9-5 jobs.

I understand your frustration.

Ive never been a high earner, just middle of the road. A family member is though and when I look at what she has to put herself through I think: is it really worth it?

Somebody upthread mentioned a high earning trap and I can totally imagine how that would happen and feel. Just writing to let you know that theres a whole world down here (😂) where you can still afford some nice things but your life is just a whole lot more chilled out. Im getting the sense that is bow what youre aspiring to and wanted to say you are allowed to and not crazy for wanting it.
Ive said it from the get go and will say it again, I think you should just cut your losses and go north to somewhere like Manchester where you will be in a buzzing city with plenty of local jobs for you, probably some options for your DP, and if not still an easy train ride to london

The train from Newcastle to London is only 4 hours or so

Get your house on the market op!

good luck what are you waiting for? Oh and after ten years I’d think you have made a healthy profit on the property in that time too

Please do anything and everything to restore your physical, mental and emotional wellbeing. Many of us who had tough childhoods where we were overloaded with inappropriate worries and responsibilities carry on the hard graft into adulthood and neglect ourselves. No one was looking out for us (or was able to look out adequately) when we were young but as an adult we need to take responsibility for resourcing our physical and emotional needs.

It looks like you have decided your current working life is not sustainable emotionally and physically, never mind financially rewarding. So what help and support do you need to transition from this point. This is your first and hardest step - the rest of it, schools, houses, jobs, commutes will fall into place after the first step - trust that and be comfortable with the uncertainty.

What support do you need?

Professional - career / life coach, recruiter, HR support at your work - maybe a sabbatical, parental leave, signed off sick with stress?

Emotional - is your DH seeing your crisis and responding appropriately and adequately? Do you have close girlfriends to help you at this crossroads? Do you need to see a psychotherapist at this challenging time.

Well-being - how much priority do you put on nourishing and nurturing your mind and body - sleep, massage, nutrition, medical checkup (poss peri), yoga etc.

Are you able to fuel your own tank at this moment or are you capable / comfortable accessing support?

It’s hard deciding to jump off the diving board.

Has this thread clarified anything for you and are you ready to take an initial action?

Are there things you are afraid of?