Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

She also said 'The new Malden house you linked is lovely obviously but it’s only £200k cheaper than my house now (so I’d still have a c.£400k mortgage), it would be a big compromise for whichever child drew the short straw on bedroom, as there are only 2 good size ones, and my commute would more than double from 1 hour to over 2 hours per day. It’s not enough of a change to be worth it for me., The New Malden house was 800K so that seems to suggest that her current house is approx 1m and that in buying a 800k house she would still require a 400k mortgage. So something doesn't add up. Because if she is really only carrying a 300k mortage i.e has 700k equity on a 1M house then she can take a much much lower paying job, see her kids more, reduce her stress etc etc.

Because schools aren’t good in her area and she’d need to move to a more expensive area of London for good schools.

Also, lower paid/lower hours jobs may not be as available in her field in London as they are elsewhere. I know that sounds crazy but it’s the case in, for example, law. Lower paid law firms in London are competing with the higher paid firms for similar clients and so the hours tend to be just as long but for less pay, whereas regional firms have a different client market and (mostly) reduced hours expectations.

(Strongly suspect OP is a lawyer based on 9.30 start time).

If you read all of ChickenChitty‘s posts

Where do you think she should move to?

Yes but she isn't prepared to move to a different area of London with better schools as far as I can see and if she moves out of London it sounds like she will be going for a completely different type of career which could also be an option in London. The fact that she has said that you need to be earning a lot more than she currently is to really live and enjoy life in London is pretty telling. I have seen so many of my friends exist in thisnlittle bubble where they genuinely believe that life does not exists unless you earn 250k a year or more. It's sad really. Not saying that is the OPs situation but it feels like she is putting a lot of blockers on things but wanting to see the only blocker as her husband.

It’s because she won’t entertain a lower salary and the multiple hundreds of thousands per year job she has isn’t easily available outside London

Think she earns more than that

@lemonts it has always been the plan to move this year because of the school
issue - again I’ve said this several times - if you’re not bothering to read my (admittedly many!) posts why are you saying so confidently what my position is?

@FairKoala the whole point of this thread is me wanting to swap to a job with a lower salary. Please stop posting as your contributions have not been helpful. Go find someone else to kick while they’re down.

She can’t be a lawyer because there are definitely in-house jobs which are less crazy hours, more flexible and pay around 200K - 250K (so not 65K public servant salary drop). And that should be enough for a 1M house in Ealing near a good school given the equity she has

@ChickenChitty I skimmed through this thread and read your replies. The usual mumsnet people failing to grasp the problem, failing to understand London-economics and failing to be helpful.

Having been in exactly the same situation as you and having been over and over it a bunch of times I think workable options could be:

1. up north and you need to accept your husband will commute for work. First train (from Leeds?) on a Monday morning, back Thursday or whatever that may be. Factor into your long-term budget. If you can stretch to a mortgage on a bedsit / crashed somewhere for him more the better.

2. Hybrid. You don't take as much of a step down in your career but get a good job in one of the Scottish banks or IMs and live in Edinburgh or Glasgow. They don't come up too often. But you could have a great house, Edinburgh schools are marvelous and your cost of living would be way lower. I'll take it as gospel your husband and his job can't move so the commute thing would still be an issue.

3. Lean in (sorry I know you probably won't like this one...) - which is where I ended up getting to having rejected 1 and 2 repeatedly over the years. I changed jobs as I really was done with the bank I was at. But got a job in tech. I have a reasonable sense of what you are on (as I was same - we were probably neighbours in the wharf), and I more than doubled my salary. Tech money makes bank money look rubbish. Tech is more flexible, yes the hours are still crazy, yes it's still hard. But it's also more fun, I wear jeans, and having tipped the balance we also get to pay the mortgage off faster and live a really nice lifestyle with great holidays etc. Who knows maybe I'll keel over from a heart attack. But for the meantime it was the only workable solution I found and one you don't seem to have considered.

Good luck x

So I assume the original plan was to move to another area of London with better schools? So that is still an option, you would just need to downsize, probably to a flat and then you can 'downsize' your job as well. If the plan was always to move then really this amounts to you wanting to move up north and your husband wanting to stay in London. It's the same dilemma faced by people everyday but it neither option requires you to continue to burn yourself out in a job you hate.

You have said that downsizing in London would be materially worse for the kids, but it doesn't have to be. Living in a nicer part of London with better schools in a smaller flat would be better than being in your current house with a burnt out Mum.

I am sure she does, I was just using that as an example figure that some friends of mine seem to consider to be the minimum salary anyone could possible survive on!

Oh well we aren’t forensic accountants here and maybe an OP masks the numbers so it is not outing, so they don’t really have to add up.

bottom line she said that she’s very unhappy and on the verge of panic attacks so it’s probably more than just numbers, ok? She said she always wanted to move back home, so perhaps that’s the best choice for HER and her family

I’m so so sorry that this is your existence. I suspect you are potentially clinically depressed / PTSD and if not yet you will become very ill very soon. Ask me how I know this. I am not surprised that you are so unsupported, not seeking help because of your childhood survival background. You are pouring from an empty cup and you will be depleted before you know it.

All I can say is please seek help from work - they have a duty of care to your mental health and you are no use to them if you functionally collapse and/or fuck up at work. They will have seen this a hundred times you are not the first or the last. Your card will not be marked - but your career and MH may not be totally recoverable if you go over the edge. Are you suggesting that you battle on thru to the new year, then resign, sell the house, move the schools, sort DH commute etc - in your current compromised / limited energy and emotional capacity? I can’t see that as sustainable and I can’t see that it’s going to play out like you think. Please prioritise reaching out for support clinically and medically asap. You need caring for right now. That’s not a failure it’s a sensible intervention at the right time.

Having an unhappy husband and children can be really stressful too.

When your children are slightly older, London offers a lot of possibilities. If you moved to the "depressing" suburbs, your children would be going into the likes of Kingston or Bromley with their mates. They would be at good schools and your husband would have his London job with no overnight stays or big costs.

I don't underestimate the situation you are in health wise, but it won't necessarily be any less stressful if everyone is resentful and blames you.

It’s not my way of expressing myself that’s the problem here. You have a very long and rigid list of things that you don’t want that can’t currently be reconciled with each other, and a reluctance to do any interrogation as to why you don’t want any of them so that you can prioritise accordingly and work out how they can best be managed.

Anyway this whole thread is an illusion. You’re not going to quit your job. You don’t even have sufficient agency to turn down a promotion that you don’t want, or to take an appropriate amount of sick leave without worrying about your card being marked (really hope you don’t have people management responsibilities if that is your attitude to medical recovery). Enjoy your golden handcuffs I guess.

@CocoButterNut you are obviously totally lacking in (a) knowledge about what it’s like to work in a high pressured corporate environment and (b) empathy. I can’t blame you for the former, but certainly do for the latter.

Not sure where the massive chip
on your shoulder has come from but it would be nice if you just left me alone now.

the whole point of this thread is me wanting to swap to a job with a lower salary. Please stop posting as your contributions have not been helpful. Go find someone else to kick while they’re down

But when ever anyone has made the suggestion to lower your salary it is met with, you couldn’t afford it.

That is why none of it makes sense.

On the one hand you are complaining that you are overstretched, you are depressed and are crying and having panic attacks but you can’t stop working because your mortgage is so large, but then plan to double it in the next couple of years

You are working 70hour weeks including Weekends but then get annoyed at dh working Saturdays so make him only do 1/2 day on Saturday

When you analyse a week, how much time do you actually spend with your dh given your 8pm -midnight evening work.

You are over stretched and burnt out but will have to accept the big promotion you are going to get which means more hours?

You want a different life, a life with shorter hours but in order for that to happen you are going to have to halve or get rid of your mortgage and move to a cheaper areas.
and then get a much lower paying job and if you won’t do any of that then your own body will end up making you

I am going to say you are in banking possibly in Canary Wharf?
Friend had a job similar to yours. Toxic hours and Toxic people

In friends case it was her dh who earned similar who wanted the big house and all the trimmings and expected her to go halves on it all
In your case it is you and only you who have this dream

Have you ever thought your dh and dc couldn’t care less about the big house and big wage slip. They would rather have a healthy and relaxed wife and mum instead of a mummy who is having panic attacks and is unhappy.

They want to see you happy and relaxed and don’t care what type of house they live in.

I don't know where they should move, I did say he should compromise, as he doesn't seem to be interested in looking at a way for his wife not to be so unhappy. As important as his job feels to him and his sense of well being, both partners should surely have that right. The partner paying 15% of family finances and earning a 6th of family income, must take the other partners needs and wants on as much as the other

Thank you for your kind post @Bredaa - really appreciate it. And @MyKindHiker and @Araminta1003 too - glad to hear from people who understand and have come out the other side. Moving elsewhere for a similar salary in the hope of a less toxic environment/trying to find a more flexible arrangement is a definite possibility, and one I was considering before I had my health scare. It feels quite high risk/overwhelming right now as would be more work establishing myself etc at the beginning but could pay off.

@Arran2024 you’ve got a definite point re my DH but I disagree re the kids being unhappy and resentful because they can’t go to Bromley or Kingston or wherever. I’m pretty sure teens who live in say Manchester go into town with their friends too.

@fairkoala I can’t afford to take a pay cut and still live in london. I want to take a big pay cut and move to a much cheaper area that is neither a suburb of London nor a commuter town to London. Why is that so hard for people to understand and accept?And ffs we do not have a big house now! It is quite small and for that reason there isn’t much leeway for it to get smaller without it being really pretty compromised. I’ve held back from saying this because it’s quite outing but I’m going to ask for the thread to be taken down anyway - we cannot live in a flat because of DH’s work for reasons I’m not going to give and please don’t speculate. But take it from me that limits the downsizing options significantly.

@ChickenChittyhave you had any more conversations with DH about this?

I’m really worried you are going to keep ploughing ahead at work and that your body wont get the chance it needs to heal.

Please consider taking time off or therapy as a minimum.

I was just saying that the suburbs aren't so awful.

I usually say listen to your head, not your heart but in this instance your head wins. Put your health first every time and seriously think about a move north. Good luck 💐

Hope it all works out for you. Having worked with some very very successful people over the years I realised they don’t work any harder than anyone else. They just put themselves in positions where they earn maximally for their efforts. I think your household income is likely that crunch point we were at a few years back - working our asses off to stand still. The only things that could have changed were either start totally again somewhere else (which in the end we just didn’t want to do) or find a way to earn even more to at least enjoy the fruits of our labours. With a higher income one can afford stuff like a daily housekeeper, laundry service, proper wrap-around childcare so that downtime genuinely is leisure time. So in that way working a bit harder felt easier as I basically don’t do any housework now so all downtime is just quality time with the kids. I probably spend more time with them than if i worked 9-5 4 days a week but still had to do all the cooking and cleaning and stuff.

It is worth considering x

Hi OP, just coming back to this thread. Seems like you’ve got a selection of useful and not useful input! But I was still wondering, the main unknown seems to be your DH‘s opinion. Have you been able to have a more open conversation with him?