Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

Other people make it work. Hundreds if not thousands.

@HotCrossBunplease he works essentially full time but other than the teaching work it’s broadly on his own schedule - from home + travel. So he could do (and does) school run and pick ups when he’s around, but he’s not always around. Sometimes he’s away for a week or two (maybe a few times a year) and regularly (maybe once or twice a month) 1-2 nights. Unless he drops his London teaching (which he wouldn’t want to do), the rest could be done from anywhere - some of the travel would likely be less convenient, as London is obviously very well connected, but some might be more so.

Ah well, was just a thought that a collateral benefit of a move might be a chance for him to bring in a bit more money but I guess not. I am genuinely fascinated to know what both of your jobs are, even though I know I never will!

All the best, great that you’ve started the discussion and hope you find a way forward. Definitely ditch that job as soon as you can, I have never looked back since I went from front line City law to a non client-facing role with less stress.

(Sorry OP I am taking your thread seriously and I acknowledge your awful near-death experience and the ensuing turmoil but…) I’ve just realised that in my head OP is Suranne Jones and DH is the record store-owning brother from Guilt. She is in law and he has a band that tours but also works at BRIT school. Would also explain the Saturday. But then I know nothing of law and I’m not that highbrow to have thought classical music 🤣 .
Seriously though OP - you’re young! You’ve done so well but have had a wake-up call. Good luck. And write that screenplay once you’re settled up north near family 😉

That would still cost between £1-2k / month from his take home salary for a weekly return train fare and 2 nights cheap accommodation each week depending on how far in advance trains/hotels could be booked.

Also bills and maintenance for a larger house and garden need to be factored in

OP has said she has spoken ‘a bit’ to her DH - I hope this was because he was busy or something and not because she feels she also has to carry the emotional load on getting everything right for everyone in the family - house, school, location, commute, weeknight accommodation etc and budgeting just because its her health and well-being that is triggering the reset. I would be expecting him to step up to resolve this issue for his unwell wife and family - especially as his creative career is the sticking point in the move.

I don’t want to live outside London and commute in!!!

No one WANTS to do this. They do it because they have to cut their cloth. You are no longer going to be a rich person, so you can't rely on wealth insulating you from the need to make compromises. You need to develop the mindset of the average earner you want to be, and work out what compromise works for your family.

FWIW there are options for cities near enough to London for a normal daily commute but also have their own professional opportunities - Oxford, Cambridge, Watford, Colchester, Winchester etc. Could you find a job for yourself in one of these?

Or just live in Tottenham or Leyton, change work to the civil service and stop being too middle class about schools? I mean that is what most people do in London. At the end of the day, looking at all my friends’ DC whether they went to St Paul’s (private) or a random comp in Peckham, they have all ended up at the same unis and absolutely fine! I mean there were some complaints during the teen years but it all blew over in our wider friendship group.
The ones we know who had more struggles were those who moved to the countryside and the Sticks of some sort where their kids never managed to meet like minded friends.

Exactly this.

I have done the London living. Then the outside London living and then back to London.

London is definitely cheaper.

We moved from a 3bed detached cottage to a 2 bed detached (made into 5 bed detached by dormers and garage conversion) and our monthly expenses reduced I think it was around £250 per month (it was 30 years ago). Mainly on travel expenses, petrol and food and £50 per month on cheaper council tax

We also could go out more for a much cheaper night out instead of me stuck going to a pub when I don’t drink and dh would spend all evening in the pub several nights per week

Yes but if the only income coming in depends on huge outgoings in the form of travel into London and overnight stays, that's when it becomes difficult. Friends of mine moved to Cornwall - bought outright - and he travelled back to London. They were ok until her business failed and now his was the only income, but with all these costs. They are just about coping but no holidays, meals out etc.

ChickenChitty
You have got it into your head exactly what you want it. Then say you don’t want it.

If you could afford a 3 bed house in London with no mortgage in a job where it is 9-5 4 days and 1 day wfh and there was no working after these hours, would you say yes to that? Or would you have a problem and what would that problem be.

If this mortgage free house was in the catchment of a good school I’d be delighted, but I’m yet to find this area. Our friends who used to live in Leyton have left London because of the secondaries.

Could you consider something like this OP- big 5 bedder in Guildford - easy for your H and lots of fairly decent local work too without you commuting , easy if you got something else that was hybrid and could commute whijst looking for something local , so if it did mean a bit of London - and you wouldn’t need a very big mortgage to make it work - very decent state schools and lots of leisure stuff close by - what it does mean though if everything went pear shaped , you’ve got a lot of work options within 40 minutes.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/89779143

Yes @Crikeyalmighty something like that could definitely work for the reasons you say (key being I think there might be local jobs I could get there) - thank you - I’ll have a look.

Move to Brighton? Easy to commute to London, full of creatives, slower lifestyle. Everyone says it’s as expensive as London- true if you’re renting, not true if you’re buying as there are cheaper areas. Are there other third options - eg stay in London different job? Or make a move up North work for both of you? I know at least two people who live in the North and commute to London - it’s doable because they work from home most of the time. Don’t stay in a work situation that is making you unwell - start from there as a non-negotiable baseline and consider all options. You might find it doesn’t need to be all or nothing.

Also agree with the pp - don’t judge the secondaries in London as many are MUCH better than schools across the rest of the country - just look at the evidence. Can’t stand the snob attitude to Tottenham, Leyton etc - and it’s also ignorant - if that is what is driving your entire decision-making process you need to do a bit of research and stop being so small minded.

I second the person who said take a sabbatical if you can afford it. You clearly need a break to reassess your priorities and get yourself into a good space mentally. This would mean no immediate decisions would need to be mind about your DHs job, the children's school or your house. I think given time and space the answer will become clear to you. DH will begin to understand how much of a toll your job was taking on you, and you can start to have discussions about what kind of life you both want to build towards. If you are worried about the gap in your CV do some part time additional training/ qualification in your industry to pass the time. Another piece of advice, but might not be up your alley, is to meditate on it. I have found this very helpful when faced with hard decisions. Good luck and I hope you find some clarity for your situation!

If he only needs to be in London 2 days a week then him staying over one night a week and working the two days sounds like a good solution. I moved from London to the North 4 years ago and it was a great decision. We live in a fairly normal northern town, 3 mins from the beach, outstanding schools and houses are really cheap. I travelled into London once a week for the first few years and it was totally fine. From somewhere like Leeds it’s only a couple of hours, so practically the same as some ‘commuter towns’. You shouldn’t be making yourself ill to pay for the family to live their best lives. You aren’t a slave. You deserve to also be happy.

There are no local jobs in brighton.

It’s not a snob attitude - I literally live in a place that people say in the same breath as both of these now. I have researched the schools extensively and attended a load of open days last September.

In my local area my options are a school that is below average on every measure or a school that is outstanding with good results but extremely strict, with kids getting detentions for forgetting pencils, and no extra-curricular options. It’s not snobbery not to want either of these for my children.

Reason i suggest is my H has a creative job too , and many we know live in that kind of area- Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, weybridge or Epsom - reason being that there are still some decent paying local jobs, good schools and as I say you could look locally but also consider getting a less stressful hybrid job as still very easy to commute if needs be one or 2 days a week. I think it would be good for giving you options and you would still get a very decent house and still be easy for your H - i think my concern if going up north ( and I’m originally from north midlands) is that it could really be a killer for your H , and the costs can very much add up too if he wants to keep the career he has and end up costing you as much - if it was just a situation where any old job would do and he was prepared to do it I would say go for it but I think it could get very messy both looking for new jobs etc - to be honest here in Bath is very similar money and Surrey is less of a fag for your H. Wishing you all the best

OP we live coastal, think Bournemouth/sounthampon way. Trains straight in to Waterloo. My friends DH has a special job like your DH and travels up to London every week for one overnight stay. Then he has trips abroad a few times a year.

I also travel to London for my work twice a month, rest is done locally.

it sounds like your DH would need to go to London twice per month for his teaching days then a few trips per year.

you really don’t need to be anchored to London at all. Having lived there when I was younger I would hate to do it with a family.

i don’t think you’ve said what line of work you are in though I was presuming Law. Would be worth you checking out some locations from a work based perspective first and then consider the area from a living perspective.

im glad he is open to it now. It’s clear you’ve been really stressed about this.

Having read all your updates I really can’t understand why if you are going on about how much your dh earns that you made him reduce his hours.

I think you have a maths problem.
Have you worked out if you have £600-700,000 in equity and bought without a mortgage how much exactly would you need to make things work

I am presuming if you say you are on 6 times dh’s salary and he is only bringing in 15% of the income then you are on around £100k and your dh is in circa 15-18k per year

Have you worked out exactly what your hourly rate of pay is for these 70hour working weeks and compared to your dh’s, for the £15k for the 2.5days work
I think it is you who needs to get a better job.
Your dh for hourly rates of pay out earns you. I know waitresses who out earn you.

Your job (I am going to guess banking as they have a reputation for paying either crap money or “big money” but want their pound of flesh) doesn’t pay enough.

I would really like to know how much your dh does earn if he is working f/t across many different jobs.

I think that the 15k income is not really the bigger picture.

I think some of the figures you have said don’t add up.

If a civil service job only pays 35% of what you are now earning. Can you not see the irony in wanting this stunning education for your children if you want them to have the same opportunities as you have had only to end up burnt out and in a job that pays less than £10 per hour.

@FairKoala youre way off with the sums involved but you also don’t need to know the actual amounts to give helpful advice, as many many others have done.

Take it from me that DH giving up 3 hours of work is literally a drop in the ocean for our finances but meant that the kids and I could actually see him on a Saturday - completely worth it as far as I’m concerned.

I had very difficult circumstances growing up; my kids fortunately do not and I’m doing everything I can to keep it that way - I just want the best for them - not sure why that is something to be sneered at?

@ChickenChitty you only have one life, and your children are only young once.
i know it’s a complete cliche but it’s true.
personally i think priotise quality time for you and your children- whatever that looks like and however you achieve it.
you are not a cash cow 🐄

Does your DH have an opinion on the schools?

The thing is, if you’re miserable in your job to the extent your mental and physical health are affected, then you are done with it. It can’t blow over or be a matter of wait and see. How clearly have you communicated to your DH that things need to change? Have you been clear that you are deadly serious about not working the hours you do to bring in the money you do? Has he got a suggestion for how things could change or be managed?