Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

he’s literally lived off you for years and also pursued his low paying career like he’s child free, travelling and leaving you to manage. Many things don’t last forever and marrying you was a commitment to prioritising you at some point! That time is now. Stop feeling bad for him- how would he have had this amazing career for years without you? By living in a closet? By commuting a long way from somewhere cheap? You’ve given him so much and it’s never one persons role in a relationship to give forever.

I agree. It’s OP’s turn now - to fill HER cup - whatever it takes - her indulged DH needs to step up / compromise etc

Ealing Fields has great attainment 8 scores. All 4 schools in Twyford trust do, I think they are top 1% for attainment 8.
and 3 schools of their trust are in cheaper areas than Richmond

but anyhow, that’s beside the point. I don’t think you should feel guilty for your DH having to commute if you move up north. Honestly you may need to get some counselling for yourself to work through this feeling, you seem to feel too guilty for your needs that may dictate the move - you matter and your needs matter. He has agency, you didn’t make him having children but it’s his turn to do more sacrifices for the family- like you did. If you all hate it, so what, you’ll deal with it too, and you can move again - it’s not the end of the world, really.

You are being aggressive. You're also derailing a thread. This isnt about grammar schools, its abiut the fact OP works 60 hours a week while her husband only works half the year

I would really check your priors on schools though. You haven't defined 'good'. Brampton Manor in Newham sends more kids to Oxbridge than (I think) any other school (dead hard to get into though). If your children are still young you a) don't know what their strengths and challenges are yet and b) probably haven't been in a secondary school in ages. They are hugely different from schools 30 years ago and the London challenge was transformational.

London schools get more per pupil funding than elsewhere in the UK and that pulls through into resources and facilities. In our area of SE London you can choose from schools that have various different focuses (including arts, maths, sports and a performing arts only school. Some are really great for SEN, some less so. Some single sex, some mixed). DH is from somewhere up North where we could get a big house, the much lauded 'great' local school is really just fine results-wise and progress-wise. And there's only one nearby.

You really need to look at progress scores, not attainment.

The OP works 60 hours a week while her husband only works half the year.

@Freinddilemma is right.

THIS is at the heart of it.

How many teacher wives of hot shot city bankers (who probably don't just work 30 weeks a year!) also employ a nanny, whose salary their own doesn't even cover?

Here you go, OP:

Darling, my brush with death in April and the burnout which has been brought on by years of 60 hour weeks in a high-pressure job have left me deeply traumatised and unwell. It has also been a wake up call.

From now on, I need to prioritize my health and quality of life. This means no longer working such long-hours in such a stressful job. I need to change industry/company/role/go part-time. This change is urgent. I plan to have left my job within the next (6) months.

It will mean I will be taking a substantial pay cut. The shortfall compared to our current joint income will be £amount per month. Instead of my salary making up 85% of our joint income it will only be 50%. It means we can no longer afford the mortgage and will need to move.

I really need you to understand how important this is to me, and I need your support.

Let's look at our options and how we can make this work...

@Zone4flaneur I’m aware of Brampton Manor and wouldn’t send the kids there for reasons not the point of this thread. I’m looking at both progress and attainment. I’ve spent a long time looking into this but haven’t given every detail I’ve considered on this thread, or any details about the kids because it’s not really the main point. I went to several open days earlier this year (the ones near me now) and that’s what made me realise we have to move.

@CocoButterNut if you had any idea where I live now you couldn’t accuse name of snobbery about where I live! Same comment on job front - not naive, but thank you for your concern.

Thanks again to others for the many thoughtful and helpful replies. I will speak to him @EightSteps!

HRTWT but have read all OP's posts.
If you accept that the non-negotiables are:
.moving up north to be near your family
.you won't be commuting to London
.you will be changing jobs to one up north
.the children will go to a school up north
then that leaves your husband and his job. Can he continue with the bits he loves by commuting/staying over somewhere and sacrificing the rest? I agree with those that say it's time for him to step up. What comes across is that you are mainly worried that the responsibility for success/failure lies solely with you - would a soul-baring discussion with him help spread that responsibility? The time has come for your needs to be as important as his. Good luck.

Well spoken @EightSteps . I'm getting angrier and angrier with OP's selfish knob of a husband. And it would be absolutely the same if the roles were reversed. Who the fuck lets their partner's health in jeopardy because they want to pursue their creative lifestyle. HE should be the one starting a thread asking how to convince his wife to scale down and make important life changes before her health is down in the gutters. We're not wealthy but I would convince DH that we need to move/scale down in a heartbeat if he would have had a health scare like the OP. But no, he just keeps going on the selfish bastard. And @ChickenChitty is too in love/doesn't care for her self enough to see it. Instead she worries about the impact on Mr Creative who loves his job even though the family can't live on it..

If you’ve got 600-700k equity I don’t understand why you wouldn’t look at somewhere on the line from Moorgate towards Enfield. Winchmore Hill is nice for example and you could probably buy a house outright there, downsize your job a bit but stay in the city, or get something in house in a different sector.

Get yourself and kids up north have a life and health, husband can commute for his basically part time job

In terms of education OP, you will be aware that London state schools outperform northern ones.

As you have noted the best performing comprehensives in London are generally in expensive areas, as parents pay for their children’s education via housing rather than directly in fees. Thus top comprehensives tend to have more affluent students.

Indeed research by the Sutton Trust found that highest performing comprehensives in general tend to be more socially selective than grammars. While there’s no academic selection, disadvantaged children on FSMs are less likely to get into a top performing comprehensive than their peers. In fact around 150 highest performing comprehensives took the same % or lower of children on FSM than grammars.

Yes @Aluna completely aware of all of that but not sure what your point is really. I want the kids to go to a school with a group of high attaining peers, and that means (as far as I can tell) choosing between an affluent area or where the ethos is against all my principles.

I think the point is you will have to compromise your principles somewhere. If education is important to you - northern comprehensives don’t perform as well as London. Buying a place at a high achieving comprehensive via an expensive house in an affluent area is as much a moral compromise as any, surely.

@Aluna obviously depends on the specific northern school. But also, I don’t have any relevant principles - not sure what you mean. I’d send the kids private if I could afford it so I’m perfectly fine with paying for it in a different way. I went to a really tough school from a very impoverished background and wouldn’t wish that on anyone, never mind my own children.

OP I think all the chat about schools and areas of London and links to very unaverage Victorian houses are a red herring here.

As others have said, this is a DH problem. His behaviour is beyond selfish. He needs to put equal effort into finding a solution.

I think all things considered, you ANBU to want to move up north. I assume your DH works in academia or a museum or such like?
I think I would be looking at moving up North, but then working with DH to make everything as easy as possible for him to keep his current job that he loves would be the compromise.

I.e. Find a place with a "do-able" commute, i.e. somewhere with a fast train service, live somewhere that's close to the station. See if there is flexibility in his work pattern so he can minimise travel to London, maybe he could submit a flexible work request or drop a day too. You say he travels monthly anyway and also works on saturdays. So if you really sit down and try to maximise the logistics of how a commute from the North would work, he probably wouldn't be away from the DC a lot more than he is now. And you would pick up the slack in return for an easier pace of life up north. You sound like you work as a team already, so its just re-adjusting that teamwork balance together.

@ChickenChitty I'd start a new thread on moving up north pros and cons education wise for your children because that seems to be your biggest concern.

Ask about where to live commuting into the city. What areas to avoid. Then start looking at Rightmove.

If you find an area you like join the local FB groups read the local press.

Find train services to London, times, frequency. Research serviced apartments, Airbnb rooms etc. for your husband. I knew someone who paid friends for a bedroom part of the week. The convenience for him and income for friends was very welcome.

In other words do your research, present your plan to your husband logically and discuss it.

I wish you luck.

I'm guessing the husband is a classical musician or something teaching in one of the conservatoires. It is difficult is that sort of job requires a huge amount training but isn't very well paid or portable.

I’d just like to respond on the selfishness points - maybe I’m deluded but this is how I see it - I already did this job when we met and it was my choice. I was absolutely motivated to do something high paid and I had no real concept of what the impact on my life would be.

Over my career there have been peaks and troughs of intensity and I’ve enjoyed it sometimes and less so other times (like everyone). It’s only really been a gradual realisation for me since we had kids and I so wanted to be at home more with them, and then the last year or so of extreme work conditions where I’ve basically just been keeping my head above water, and then being unwell just kind of exploded everything, alongside the real turning point feeling with the school decision.

It’s not like DH has been sitting here for 15 years seeing me suffer. He’d see it as us both just carrying on doing the jobs we’ve always done. And the last year or so he’d put down to the unique circumstances of the piece of work I’m doing and the random unfortunate coincidence of appendicitis. So I don’t think he’s been selfish up to now, really.

So now things have changed, you need things to change more in order to thrive, you can see a workable path towards it where - with some more commuting and overnight stays, and you taking more of the work on the domestic fr- husband gets to keep doing the work he loves. You’ve obviously researched schools, housing markets, job opportunities, commutes and have enough information to make decisions (which you do not have to defend here). Doesn’t matter if some posters here think your husband is selfish or unreasonable or a prince among men. Life changes and we need to adapt - we are apes with gigantic brains, we’re designed to solve problems! Just talk to your husband. This weekend would be a good time to start. Are you going to do that, or continue arguing with randoms here about what constitutes a bog standard house, or a decent school?

Thanks @BigSkies2022 - I am going to talk to him about it. It won’t come out of the blue as we’ve been discussing the school thing for a while.

It’s been really helpful to have all my thoughts challenged on this thread, even on the houses, schools etc, so many thanks to everyone who responded.

Most middle class parents aren't managing to buy in the catchment of top comps. They do the rental trick (sell house in Yr 4/5 of eldest child, live in rented 1/2 bed ex council flat next to comp for 12-18 months, then buy next house a couple of miles away in cheaper area, sibling policy gets younger dcs in). I know at least 4 families who have done it for comps like WLFS. Or they use the semi-selective routes like music aptitude for Camden, or religion route for Oratory. It can save a lot of money in the long run esp with 2+ dcs in comparison with private fees, and would have an direct impact on quality of life as it would allow dropping to a lower paid/less demanding role. But needs a fair bit of planning which is hard to do when working 70 hrs.

I don’t see your DH as selfish. There’s a weird double standard on here that it’s ok for women to earn significantly less than their spouse but if it’s the other way round the man is selfish and bankrolled.

It’s perfectly valid to have a valuable but lower paid career whether academe or music or both.

The question is whether he would agree to leave London and whether commuting is feasible.

I agree with this - it’s why we have got so many ex Londoners here in Bath - they still want the leafy middle class terraced streets with 4 bedders and bifolds and the Georgian flats plus great state schools , ( lots of good private too) coffee shops, cafes, good shopping , excellent restaurants, multiple theatres , comedy venues, train to London etc - but still get a good house for under£800k and under £600k if you compromise somewhat ( which I know sounds enormous but compared to similar well shod areas in London is way more doable) and jobs in the area- both here and Bristol and Swindon - I’m sure plenty would have been perfectly happy to stay in Kingston, Chiswick,Hampstead,Crouch End, Ealing, Muswell Hill etc but sometimes needs must and such is the situation in London with housing that it’s hard to get that kind of lifestyle and a good house , even with colossal income unless you bought years and years ago - I love London,met my DH there and still go regularly with work and lots of stay overs, my son lives in a flat share in Belsize so see him too but in my opinion unless I can live in the kind of area I mentioned above it’s not for me, especially now I’m early 60s and here to me feels like an upgrade not a downgrade if I can’t live in those areas.some people are happy with 2 bed flats in London in an ok area, even with a kid or two and that’s fine, but plenty aren’t especially if working very long hours and clearly OP wants the classic middle class lifestyle and a spacious nice home and doesn’t think she’s getting it. I do think she can get it elsewhere in South or other areas a bit less swanky in London or on fringes , but if she would prefer to go back north and they both have family up there, I do get that too - I have one son still in the midlands, where in originally from, so I just go to see him, would I live there myself for a cheaper life ? No because the town is depressing and horrible, think Lee Anderson territory - would I live in York area or Wirral or Jesmondor nice bits of North east - yes, but my husband wouldn’t - he too has creative job but more full on that OPs husband-needs Heathrow with an hours and a half and is in London at least every 8 days.