Should we leave London after burnout, or stay for my husband's career?

[ChickenChitty]

Help me with my life dilemma.

DH and I have been together for 15 years, we are late 30s with 2 kids at primary school. I work in a stressful job in the City, requiring extremely long hours (60-70hr weeks, weekend work most weekends and most holidays too). DH is in a creative career - his passion. I earn c.6x what he does. He is self-employed so does more with the kids and more around the house (I’d say he does 60% of the childcare and maybe 70% of household tasks).

I nearly died earlier this year with a ruptured appendix that was missed and negligent medical care. It came off the back of a period of very intense work - about 9 months of hell. I’m mentally traumatised from that experience and burnt out generally, and the whole thing has made me reassess my life.

Ive suddenly got clarity that I don’t want to continue doing my job anymore and I don’t even know what I’m doing it for as London is so expensive our quality of life is not great. We have enough equity in our small London terraced house that we could move back to my home town (up north) and buy somewhere large and detached and lovely mortgage free, near much better schools for the kids and near my family. DH really doesn’t want to leave London as he loves it, and his work is here (his family is up north too but nowhere near mine). He would want to continue commuting to London if we moved, which would probably involve overnight stays and impact family life.

Im starting to feel a bit of resentment as I increasingly feel like I’m killing myself and sacrificing my quality of life so that DH can live his dreams. But I love him, am proud of what he does, and would feel awful to effectively force him to move (which we would need to do if I quit my job, as he could never pay the mortgage alone). I knew when we got married that this would be his career. I’ve thought of middle grounds like downsizing in London or moving to a commuter area if I took a pay cut, but that would feel like a much worse outcome for the kids, to leave everything they know for something materially worse, and/or both parents travelling more than we do now . I don’t know whether I’m being unfair in wanting to do this or not, or what the right balance is, so thoughts from other people would be welcome!

Notwithstanding potential tax disadvantages of owning a second home…

What do you mean by “high academic attainment”? I went to a state comprehensive school. (Not in London). I was supported by good teachers and got high enough grades for Cambridge. But I was in a minority at my school, I’d say only 20% of us did well enough to go to any university. I’m not sure my school could have been described as having “high academic attainment” but it was absolutely fine for the minority of high academic achieving pupils who went there.
Also, in London there are lots of 6th forms and kids travel further to go to those; are you including them when you look at catchments vs houses?

The OP, understandably, doesn't want to move to a commuter town. So why keep suggesting them?

@CocoButterNut where are you getting this from? I haven’t said anywhere that I’m planning to quit my job with no plan, or that I expect DH to quit his. On the contrary, I’ve said lots of times that DH would not quit his job and so I would see him a lot less during the week if we moved, due to the commute.

The only thing I know about Sutton is that it’s a grammar area, so my expectation is that the non-grammars are lower attaining than they would be elsewhere; but it’s just an assumption - I’ll have a look.

This is very circular, I am tired reading the thread, OP must be exhausted!
OP, have I got this right: you have to move next year whatever you decide on London/home town in the north/job because you need to change areas for the children’s secondary schools? So this has- along with the health crisis and the mad hours job- brought about an unavoidable, overwhelming realisation that you can only get a house in London in the catchment area of good schools if you increase the mortgage and therefore have to stay in the job that’s killing you.

you don’t want to downsize, you don’t want to increase your commute and add to stress. And it wouldn’t matter if you were willing to do those things because you don’t want to do your job anymore.

you reckon you can buy a good house outright, near good schools in your home area, and you could take some time to find a better job with a good work- life balance. It’s not a leap into the great unknown (as some make, in search of a better life/career/whatever) and the only downside is that your husband can only work in his chosen field in London.

so why can’t he combine some stays overnight in London, with a couple of longer days commuting? You take up more of the domestic work to allow for this. Lots of families live like this.

This seems like the least painful compromise, for all. After all, you have researched housing markets, schools and commuting distances extensively and no-one has been able to show you anything that you haven’t already investigated.

I think you know what you want and need to do, but life comes at you fast ! If you need to move by next summer holidays, and your current house is ‘shit’ as you keep DS, you need to fix it up so it looks good to sell and crack on. Are you going to sit down with your husband this weekend?

As you keep saying, I meant to write!

Op

I really feel for you - I honestly think you should make the move as I think you have sacrificed enough of yourself thus far

As you say you earn a good salary but thanks to the ridiculous costs of housing etc in London you are not even feeling the rewards.

Whilst your attitude towards your husband and his passion is rather generous- when will he look in the mirror and realise you are the one holding it all together? He is living his best life but you both need to feel like that - if he wants to travel or commute just let him - then he might actually see what hard work is like even if the commute will be the hardest part of his week!

Believe me it’ll be nice having a big large bed to yourself

He might also self reflect a bit and realise he is being a tad selfish

Good luck!

You dont care about Sutton. Just follow your heart and go north

@HotCrossBunplease “attainment8” is the government attainment measure at GCSE - I’m looking for high scores. I know full well that some kids make it from difficult surroundings (I was one, went to Oxford) but I want my kids to have as high attaining a peer group as possible.

Please don’t now start attacking this in the same way that people keep telling me to suck up a longer commute- it’s my preference for my children and there are lots of places that offer this. In London, those places are very expensive as far as I’ve been able to find.

Are you saying that you want to avoid grammar areas in case your children do not get into the grammar? But you do want them to have “as high attaining a peer group as possible.” Not sure I follow.

No I want to avoid them because I have absolutely no intention of putting them through the London grammar relentless treadmill.

I wasn’t saying that comprehensive schools are “difficult surroundings”. Mine wasn’t. But, by definition, a comprehensive is not going to have across the board high attainment.

Come on. If you are telling him that he is moving north, and giving him the ultimatum that he either quits his job or spends several days a week travelling for hours, living as someone's lodger, and barely seeing his family then yes, you are telling him to quit his job. That kind of grim uber-commuting life is only on the table if you specifically want to punish him to even out the sacrifices that you feel you have made.

Your own job plans don't seem any more concrete than maybe get a local job in the north, maybe don't work for a while. Have you seen an actual opportunity that you are qualified for? The jobs market is tough.

@HotCrossBunplease I can see that you’re getting yourself ready to have another go at chipping away on this one. Some comprehensives are higher performing than others. I’m looking for the higher performing ones (less likely to be found in grammar areas for obvious reasons).

Somewhere in a drive of Twyford station might suit. Liz line into London and Reading has a decent job market for many professionals. You are more looking at a detached 3 bed around there but school options are good.

For what it's worth I would be looking at if you could move north. I am just giving you a possibly workable compromise.

Its an area that I know people although I don't live there personally.

Edited for typo

@CocoButterNut I’ve said almost nothing about my job plans because I don’t want to be specific about what it is. That’s not the same as not having a plan.

I should point out that DH’s teaching is only for 30 weeks a year (academic terms) so for 22 weeks he wouldn’t need to commute at all. I have no desire to punish him and have been nothing but supportive of him for our entire relationship.

My DS starts working for an architect practice next month in Leeds. We were there this week. Great city. DS and partner live in a lovely village a ten minute commute on the train into the city. There's some lovely areas. He doesn't have to worry about school yet. They're not planning a family for years yet.

@ChickenChitty I would move up north for quality of life. Let him commute. A lot of people do these days. He can sleep over a few nights of the week. Once you have children the goal posts move.

I've one friend her husband works for clients which can mean him spending weeks away in third world countries. Another travels the world modernising company systems both my friends have their parents, siblings, old friends in their home areas for support.

You'd be doing a public service if you could share more about this job plan that somehow manages to get a new job without any of the difficulties involved in getting a new job.

Honestly, you are blaming your husband for the fact that the unicorn you want doesn't exist. The problem isn't that he is a low earner. He could earn £100k, and even then both of your salaries wouldn't buy you what was previously be seen as a standard middle-class lifestyle in London (the nice house in SW London or Ealing by the good school etc). It's a structural problem.

It’s pretty obvious that affluent areas will have a higher proportion of academically high-achieving kids.

I’m not sure that tells us that the schools in those areas are objectively better though.

Best of luck with finding the right solution for your family. Prioritise your health and everything else will fall into place.

Firstly, why are you working 60/70 hours a week? Is it the norm in your line of work?
If it isn't I would be having a word with the employer to say the level you are working at is not sustainable, it has impacted on your health where you almost died, you have little home life time and it's all work, work, work. Companies should have a work/home life balance policy, so find that first and then go to them, would a job share work? Have you checked out what job opportunities there are for you up north? Surely grabbing snippets of time with your children and husband is also making you feel guilty and unhappy. Time to put you first for once OP

@CocoButterNut Im not sure why you’re being so aggressive towards me. I obviously haven’t applied for and got a job in an area I don’t live in, but I’m highly qualified and very experienced in what I do, I’ve got some contacts in the area (former colleagues from a former job) and I’ve spoken to recruiters who were very positive. (One of them contacted me out of the blue a couple of years ago with an offer, which I wasn’t ready for then, but has stayed in touch since).

Im not blaming my husband for anything.

Hmm. I don't think I'm being aggressive. I am perhaps a touch irritated at the implicit snobbery in your insistence that only the most salubrious London boroughs will do. And genuinely - in the nicest possible way - you are being naive about the ease in which you expect to walk into a new job. I know so many experienced and qualified people who have struggled for 18+ months with job-hunting.

The main bread winner has more power. It’s just a fact. Fifteen percent is nothing. If the stress of your life continues to degrade your health you will all be relying on someone who is not able to support your family. That is not responsible parenting.

Another hard fact, most people are not going to put another person’s interest before their own. Certainly not voluntarily, without prompting; married and in love or not.

It is wise of you to read the writing on the wall and take the steps necessary to insure the quality of life you have already gifted your family. Not only is it not selfish, it is the responsible thing to do. You need to put your energy into discussing this unapologetically with your husband, rather than online strangers.

Of course he hopes this will blow over and he can remain your dependent, and follow his dream, keeping himself ignorant of the price this is costing you. You need to let him know calmly and certainly that this is not doable.

This thread hits me. For many reasons.

I won’t bore you with my back story, but we were in similar position to you, but DH and I ended up changing careers to end up on a position where we both earn the same. This was only enabled because we have a small mortgage, because as you pointed on earlier OP, we bought ages ago and frankly, got lucky.

I agree that commuter town is worst of both worlds. If you do decide to stay in London your children will be independent much earlier, no taxi-parent necessary to school, hobbies or friends. That doesn’t happen elsewhere and is undervalued in my opinion.

What strikes me though is the number of threads on MN where women say they ‘can’t afford to go back to work’ due to the coat of childcare. I’m projecting, but I assume that your DH continuing to work was a net cost to the family? And if you move north a regular commute to London to continue his dream career would like also be a net cost, relative to his earning power?

Fine if you are willing to continue to subsidise him OP. On any other thread he would be called a cocklodger. Not many women on MN would be willing to be a financial drain of their family, hence the gender pay gap. Hence so many going to lower paid / flexible / part time roles in order to meet the needs of their families.

OP your DH is now used to being subsidised. I am sure that would be a shock for him to read, and I’m also sure he does not see his life in this way. Once it’s pointed out maybe he cares, maybe he doesn’t. That should tell you whether you’re a team or if he has enjoyed his accidental meal ticket. I’m sure he didn’t plan it but he sure is leaning into it.

All this chat about house prices here there everywhere is meaningless. Make a plan with DH about where you are both able to be, financially. He gets a better paying job then it’s London. Don’t discount that any London school is statistically best, attainment wise, plus all the enrichment and work experience opportunities your kids will have.

If your DH can’t contribute to a meaningful (and that is personal to you) London life, then as a family you can’t afford it and move north. Your won’t be the first, not the last to make such a move.

edited for typo