To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

However, the people who remove and dispose of your rubbish will have their true value acknowledged, and could literally clean up. Not much use of course if most people can't afford them.....

Sorry, I dont know what I was thinking! 😁

Lets hope you dont have a car accident age 21 when you havnt had time to save and lose one arm and one leg and cant work as you would be buggered then,.you point being which i agree with is no welfare state so the lazy farts have to work but wages would reduce as employers are greedy and there would be no winners

Tell me you don’t know how anything works without telling me you don’t know how anything works.

This is astonishingly daft, and I’m being polite.

What about, as an example, roads and pavements? How are they maintained if no-one’s paying?
Or are you suggesting tolls everywhere, even for tiny side roads?

Who would run said society? Or are our government and civil service meant to be pay as you go as well?

Christ, this sounds like a slide into the purge.

In all honesty, you’ve made my day with this absolute garbage, Nicely done because if this is satire or hate bait, it’s excellent.

I can see why your starting to think like that, we have so many entitled people getting crazy amounts in benefits. But that wouldn't be civilised, we do need to take more personal responsibility though.

You don’t decide to have anxiety.

Yes so many entitled people thinking that they can work their fellow humans into the ground on minimum wage and zero hours contracts and dodge taxes but swan around in private jets and yachts. So entitled.

This response is even funnier than the original post.
Hmmm, are you aware that some people are locked out of earning from birth due to a disabilities? How would they pay for support and healthcare you maniac?

Unfortunately, we know there are lots of people like you. They are voting Reform or Restore and in the US they are voting for Trump and the Republicans.

Apart from people like the tech billionaires who vote for Trump out of sheer self interest, the people that vote for these political parties tend to be uneducated, often racist and completely lacking any empathy or self-awareness. They are the opposite of the elite but are encouraged to look down on immigrants and Muslims and basically anyone who isn't white so they can feel better about themselves.

In the USA, even well off middle class families with expensive health insurance have gone bankrupt when they or their children were diagnosed with cancer.

For someone who is apparently University educated (at a time when it was free), your arguments are ridiculous and utterly sociopathic.

@LettingTheBadThingsGo What do your friends in real life think of these ideas? Are they all for it like you? Have you ever used the NHS or have you only ever used private health since reaching adulthood?

Who pays for the police to prevent crime? If they are arresting terrorists, who foots the bill with no tax? Does everyone pay or just the families of those who died in the terrorist attack? What about a bus crash? How are the emergency services funded there? Do the children of the poor never go to school because their parents can't afford it? OP, there are definitely countries where this is still an available situation now if you would like to relocate to experience your own idea of utopia.

‘Mr’ ( because of course it’s a guy) Hardworker gets roads, healthcare, local amenities, bins emptied, and more besides and most importantly gets to live in a safer society because we aren’t all fighting to stay on top you punch-drunk madhead.

So you call an ambulance for help, at the same time someone more wealthy than you does the same, offers them triple to attend to them rather than you. You’d be happy with that? Even though you can afford to privately pay the going rate for an ambulance?

This exactly!! Look UP people!!

Actually, the more I think about this, the better it is starting to sound. I used to be a hairdresser, so I have a steady hand, and I'm good at sewing. I could 100% be a black market surgeon/Dr.

And, even if I'm rubbish at surgery, who cares? No one will be able to leave me a bad review on Google because 1) who can afford to work at Google anymore? And 2) they'll be dead. As an added bonus, no one will investigate any of the deaths because if they or their family could afford the police, they wouldn't be coming to me for the appendectomy, would they?

I'll be a billionaire.

Let's hope you don't ever become disabled OP, or have disabled children. Or your partner never leaves you high and dry!

What an astonishing lack of empathy/compassion and imagination in your OP

Well Ive just looked up my own medication that is life long for chronic conditions

It would cost me around £120 per month based on current private prices

I asked AI (yes) if the cost would go down, if there was no such thing as the NHS and all meds or care was private, thats all people would have. The answer surprised me, costs would go up. The NHS is so massive that it keeps costs of even private meds down due to buying power so manufacturers and providers have ceiling prices which are lined by what the NHS is or isnt doing at any one time

Remove that huge buying power from one sole customer and drug companies can charge what they like becuase each individual pharmacy or private provider does not have that power

Im on a good income, I would not be able to afford what I need medication wise or GP or consultant wise. I wouldnt be able to afford ongoing care or the appointments.

Wow. What a thoroughly unpleasant attitude, and an amazing lack of thinking.

Think of this: you might be able to enjoy your subscription-based lifestyle now, but you could be poor, injured, or disabled and unable to pay tomorrow.

You also might want to read about Grafton, New Hampshire, where a bunch of idiots effectively tried this, and it worked just as well as any sane person would expect.

newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project

You may feel you can afford this now, but if it was introduced and you, any dependents became seriously ill or disabled and you could not work because you had to look after them solely - how would you manage this and how would you feel if you couldn't afford what you needed and there was not state support. Would you like to return to the days of the workhouse as this is where you'll end up in your scenario. There are no guarantees in life - you have just been lucky so far, as have I, Life is not a level playing field and everyone does not have the same opportunities to progress for whatever reason - why would you object to supporting weaker or more vulnerable members of society or would you prefer them to be subject to exploitation and harm?

@LettingTheBadThingsGo The closest you’d get to this is the US. But for a European version, I’d argue the Dutch way isn’t too far off.

OP those people who've been busy working all day are back and responding now, what do you think of their thoughts?

Reasoning like a toddler.

Damn, I was hoping you were a teenager, to explain this post.

"Radical self-reliance" sounds great until you actually list what you're relying on.

Hope you're cutting your grass with a hand scythe, because if you're using an electric mower, you're relying on a national grid built over decades with massive public investment and regulated by the state. Those electricity companies only exist because taxpayers fund the courts that enforce contracts, the police who protect infrastructure, Parliament that writes the laws, and regulators that make sure the whole thing doesn't descend into chaos.

Driving to B&Q? Tax-funded roads. Filling up with petrol? Tax-funded standards, licensing and environmental regulation. Buying anything online? Tax-funded courts to enforce commercial law and protect property rights. Banking? The central bank, financial regulation and deposit protection. Drinking water? Public regulation. Sewage? Public regulation. Mobile phone? Radio spectrum allocated by the state. Internet? Built on decades of publicly funded research and infrastructure.

You've already acknowledged you'd still need a "country tax" for things like defence. But once you add the courts, policing, roads, regulators, the legal system, infrastructure, environmental protection, financial regulation, planning, Parliament, and everything else that underpins a functioning economy, the list gets so long it's almost like... taxation.

And as for your repeated claim that everyone disagreeing with you must be on benefits because they want the current system to continue, that says rather more about your reasoning than theirs. It's a strange leap to assume that anyone who points out the holes in your argument must be doing so out of self-interest rather than because it's a daft argument. For what it's worth, my household income is probably in the top 5%, and I still think this idea falls apart the moment you compare it with how a modern country actually functions.

More than anything, though, it says something about your values. The underlying message seems to be, "I'm all right, Jack"—that if you personally can afford something, everyone else should simply fend for themselves. That's a pretty bleak way to look at society.

I always worked, until my 2nd and last child was 5 and I had such a breakdown I was considering killing myself and my children too, was diagnosed as chronic depression from unresolved post natal depression from my first child 13 years earlier, I’d kept going as I didn’t have a choice until my mind and body shut down.
Since been diagnosed as Audhd.
It’s good to know we would have been left to die of starvation or rely on my 13 year old to feed us.(single mother because I picked the wrong dad)