To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

if a person caught a disease while young what would they do.
if there is no cure just a life spent struggling with constant pain disability what happens to them.

what about your baby is born needing surgery and medicine. do you put that poor baby to sleep

It’s funny that the OP almost certainly considers themselves intellectually and morally superior to those described in the first post.
like, seriously thinks they are top tier.
whilst not having the intelligence to work out how idiotic their proposal is
or the emotional IQ to realise how all multiple ways it would fail
Did my taxes pay for their education?

I want my money back

LOL
Look at the entirety of history, this did NOT work

@LettingTheBadThingsGo

Go and live in the US then and see how you get on. Hope you don't get old or sick.

This is so funny. How much do you think a police coming in 5 minutes will cost you? Would it be that the faster you needed it the more expensive it is? Same for ambulances. What if they raised prices in busy periods? Would you know you could always always afford it?

Banana cakes.

I agree with a lot of points you raise, eg paying less NI/tax for a society with few or no benefits. The UK is becoming increasingly dependent on benefits and it's not right, people should be taking care of themselves more.
However, I think fire service, police, education should stay centrally funded.

The folk complaining are generally either middle class people who are comfortable and/or clueless, or those who receive benefits themselves (paid for by the tax payer). Why should my hard earned money go towards people who can't or won't help themselves? They are their own and their family's responsibility, not mine. Meanwhile, I take home much less money every month for my own family because I'm paying for benefit claimants' lifestyles (amongst other essential services).

Quite incredible, isn't it.

You’re against welfare and council houses? So people should just what, live on the street if they can’t afford to buy or rent a property privately? This has got to be a deliberate wind up.

How utterly disgusting.

I genuinely hope I never meet you or anyone like you in my entire life.

One of the biggest shites I have read this year 😅 surcharge on roads depending on each person’s mileage?
Your parents shouldn’t have had you 🙄

You assume everyone will earn enough to cover all these costs. They won't, and some people will die having a broken leg that they can't afford to have treated.

So tax & NI on a minimum wage job full time is £4305. Looking at US health insurance costs, you're going to struggle to cover that from the saved tax & NI, and that's before we get onto other services - fire brigade, police, pension, waste collection etc. add in education for those who have children as well. And what do you do about child protection - even if they can afford it, abusive parents aren't going to pay for social services, though I assume you accept that it's nobody else's business if people want to beat or rape their children.

In your world if your neighbours house catches fire and they can't afford the fire brigade, the fire may spread to your house, and other homes. You might be able to afford to have the fire brigade, that won't undo the damage that could have been prevented if your neighbour had access to the service.

Ultimately whole sections of society would be essentially lawless with no-one able to afford the police, the wealthy retreating into gated communities where they have decent roads, access to medical care, protection from police etc. A dystopian nightmare.

So, hypothetically, say a 17 year old is raped. They develop agoraphobia a few weeks later while still processing the trauma. They also get social anxiety and obviously long term PTSD. How do they earn in this world you're thinking of? Are they still under the responsibility of the parents? Or parent, as some men forget they have children and move on to the next. How long do we need a rainy day fund for our children, incase of them not being able to support themselves, in your world? Not having a go, I enjoy theoretic discussions.

Fwiw, for all those on PIP with a bad back, how the hell do the ones I know of locally, keep having child after child? When I had a sore back, the last thing I wanted was... Well, to have a he boat rocked. Let alone to carry a child for 9 months. Then all the carrying of baby, leaning over to feed, bending over to change... I know of three couples, both on PIP with a bad back. Yet have child after child... Personalised number plates on their decent cars, one even has a trailer on the back! This isn't against anyone on disability, just something I've always wondered about, especially as the ones I know 100% are lying about it! (They're all related somehow or other, maybe bad backs run in the family...)

(Maybe from all the boinking they're getting up to 🤷)

So essentially you think the things you might need should stay centrally funded, but not the things you don’t think you’ll need. Figures.

You sound thick as shit

What would you do if you had a disabled child, who needed care, so you couldn't work? Then your partner was killed in a robbery, because desperate people were trying to survive. Criminal gangs would be in charge, in no time. Have you lived anywhere where society is in chaos, because everyone has to survive as best they can? which is the realistic way to describe what you want!

^ this.
Horrible and selfish outlook , would be a horrible world to live in

Nah, just the bare essentials that everyone should have. Especially an education to get themselves ahead/on in life.

You're really not taking home "much less" because of welfare claimants, you know? If you earn £100k p/a, approximately £8k of your tax money goes towards welfare, of which 55% pays for state pensions.

If you wanna reduce the welfare bill, start by killing off the pensioners. (This is sarcasm, btw, OP and anyone else who thinks like her. I do not condone the killing of pensioners).

@BackToLurk There's no point discussing anything with someone who is unable to see shades of grey.

Who will pay for the army?

How could each person possibly afford to pay for sewage, water treatment, hospitals, mortuaries, schools, social services, police, fire service, ambulances, roads, electricity supply....?

You really haven't thought this through.

Have you any idea how much surgery and a stay in hospital costs to go private, even for something 'simple' and straightforward? Its thousands of pounds.

It’s a retiree…probably happily sat with their huge mansion they bought for 50p, frightened of the black man down the street, final salary pension from the age of 60 while the rest of us work until we drop.

I would guarantee though that she isn’t paying for private healthcare, that she does take her state pension that she despises so much. Winter fuel allowance…don’t need it but why not 😂🤷‍♀️

Or it is a troll.

Everybody relies on others unless they're living completely off grid in the wilderness somewhere.

Without relying on others to some extent, society collapses.

Yep

curious79 · Today 11:25

Christ! I'm fairly conservative but even I know this is absurd. I actually drafted a longer reply but honestly I feel you've just crawled out of the stupid box, or goody box (unsure which), so deleted it

Same here. I think in the last tax year I paid over £42,000 in income tax and I also think the OP's posts are too stupid to waste time replying to.

OP: "The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off."

You are forgetting about the substantial number of people who are neither morons nor psychopaths.