To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

and no need for anyone to moan about paying taxes too

‘Country charge’ aka tax, then ?

Incredibly stupid and ignorant idea which would ensure the total destruction of our country. Crime would go through the roof.

You think that sick and poor people (including children) should be left to die?

Go live in the USA.

He'd be left, to fend for himself, god help all those who are like him.

In other words, disabled people aren't wanted or cared for, and eugenics is the basis of this utopia. 😳💔

So before you could have kids you’d need to save enough to afford to support the medical needs of a child FOR LIFE just in case they have a disability? Or don’t take the risk and never have children. What about schools?

And if those people dont have family? What then?

This whole concept is completely dystopian. With current tax rules, if you earn £40,000 per year (higher than many critical jobs in society), you pay approximately £7700 of that in tax and national insurance contributions each year, assuming you pay nothing into a pension. Do you really think that people can afford to replace all national-level services with that kind of money? The UK's National Funding Formula (NFF) for schools in the 2026/27 academic year is £6,771 per child. That would eat up almost all of the tax savings in one bite for an average earner. What if you have more than one child? And what about healthcare and policing and all the other things you'd still have to pay for? The majority of people in this country would be destitute very quickly. If you earned £60k, putting you in the top 10-15% of earners in the UK, you'd still only claw back just under £15k in tax/NI, so after educating two children, you'd also be too poor to pay for healthcare costs or anything else that the state currently provides.

Your rationale around disability is also fundamentally flawed. You say that disabled people should have saved enough money in unpaid tax/NI to support themselves through their disability. However, that is predicated on people becoming disabled in later life - and having had absolutely no costs in the meantime. If you could save £7700 per year, how many healthy years would you need before you felt you could support yourself unaided? What if someone becomes disabled at 19 - before they have saved enough for a lifetime of care/healthcare etc.

This will also likely reduce the birth rate down to zero, and we already have a problem with that in the UK. If you have a child with a disability does that mean that you have to care for them, pay for their (more expensive) education/care/therapy, AND work full-time to save enough money to support them and yourself through their entire lifetime? If so, the risk inherent in having a child becomes intolerable for anyone other than people like Elon Musk. You say that people can choose not to have children, and that is true - but do you want that kind of society? Who will care for you as you age? It doesn't matter if you have the money to pay for care if there is nobody to provide it because the population stopped reproducing and those who are born only want to work in the most highly-paid professions.

Sigh.

people learned and studyed long before the modern education system, eg leo da vinci, society would be find without modern education system

The thinking behind the OP's idea of utopia is utterly repugnant to me. I can't even engage with someone who is seemingly so completely unaware of the realities of life for the disabled, the chronically ill, those with additional learning needs, the disadvantaged, those working hard on low income....I could go on but there's no point, is there?

Just when I thought I had read it all on Mumsnet, someone comes along with something even crazier

if people thinks the ops op would stop people having kids then how did society get to today ? previous societies had many of the parts the op discusses eg genghis khan times etc ?

A small minority were educated the rest worked in manual jobs that no longer exist.

genghis khan times

😂😂😂

Did they learn grammar before the modern education system existed?

can you explain to me then how society functioned education wise pre victorian times, did people study ?

or how about ben franklin how did he study

julius cesar ?

machivelli

shall i go on, were was the modern education system in those times ?

Men studied. Men voted. Men committed crimes with impunity.
Europe was riven with wars.
And taxes were still charged.
Huzzah!

OP. You sound frustrated. Yes things don't work very well at the moment. Let's think of stuff we could do to fix that. But at the same time, let's learn from history about what happens when a tiny number of people can afford to do whatever they want and the rest of us can't. Inequality like that shames us all. https://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/shows/horrible-histories

ask ben franklin, ask socrates, ask plato, best of all since society loves him shakespear

A lot of it was based on forms of slavery.

I am so fed up of people thinking if a person works hard they must be paid well. Nurses, firefighters, care home workers, teachers, ambulance staff etc have demanding jobs that are far less financially rewarding than many jobs that pay far more.

Although I assume in your utopia they would be paid a wage that actually recognises their hard work so they can in turn can afford all these services for themselves as they rightfully should be able to. And paying all these hard workers fair wages would dramatically increase the cost for the customers but fair is fair, exclusive services come with exclusive prices.

Good point 🤣

Why? Have you been tasked with solving it?

Hilarious that my post pointing out the blindingly obvious was deleted.

I'm asking you about your grammar and spelling.