To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

Mu husband and I both work, we have always worked. We have savings and pensions, we own our home and have two children. Our youngest is 3 years old and disabled. We chose to have children and we can afford to have our children. We didn’t know of her disability until after she was born, not that it would have made any difference if we had known sooner because she is perfect. No amount of saving or preparing can prepare you for life with a disabled child because all children are different so you are telling me I shouldn’t have had my child? And even if we had saved up enough money to cover the cost, what happens when we die? Money doesn’t grow on trees! Use your brain!

This. My sister has Down’s syndrome, autism and other health conditions, and operates at the level of a 2- or 3-year-old despite being in her 30s. She has never been able to work and never will be able to. Where is her ‘bank of money’ supposed to come from?

So true

Probably one of the most deeply unpleasant posts I've seen on here. Do society a favour and fuck off.

And what about someone who works hard on the bin lorries, or stacking shelves at Tesco, or serving tables? They all work hard, so can they earn as much as a doctor, or a business man who happened to be born to someone with a thriving business their kids could slide into? I mean if working hard means you get to save for all life's eventualities then your answer must be yes.

Your ignorance is astounding. My middle aged husband is terminally ill. Believe me - he would much rather still be at work than dying.

What about if I don’t agree with street lights and defence? Why should I pay for this from a country charge when i don’t agree and it doesn’t benefit me as in individual?

Do you see how you can’t get so nit picky like this?

Would you prefer the poor in society to just shrivel up and die?

The system needs overhaul, but not to the extent that if you’re not rich enough then just die.

FWIW I don’t have kids but I have no issue paying for things like schools as they are needed for a functioning society.

Your selfishness is astounding

Your proposal operates on the assumption that the harder you work the more money you get, which is so idealistic and over simplified.

Nurses work really hard. Cleaners work hard. There are so many jobs out there that require hard work and sadly the reward is not linear simply because of how hard you work.

So in your world of removing subsidies you’d end up with hard working people who would get less. Or do you propose the nation all receives the same hourly rate regardless of the job that they do?

I think it would only work if everyone was payed the same and worked the same hours as I can’t see people on minimum wage or 0 hour contracts having a bank of money to fall back on.

I don't think you've thought this through. Young people, or people who've always been disabled to a significant degree wouldn't have built up the work history to have anything to 'fall back on'. Unless they've already spent at least 30 years working on a high income, they just wouldn't be able to support themselves if disabled for the rest of their lives. Our cost of living is too high for that.

It sounds like you're living in la-la land, and that you're actually not very intelligent either. Do you actually know what it's like to be a normal, working class person in the U.K, I wonder? That's the majority of the population, not whatever hyper capitalist dystopian bubble you're living in.

Her parents, wider family and community. Im not defending @LettingTheBadThingsGo position but that's how it works in countries with no safety net. Or, of course, it doesnt work - with the inevitable consequences.

Not clear who needs to be paying for general services etc.

Not clear if OP is happy about the unwaged (and any kids) having nowhere to live and nothing to eat.

But, this thread has to be a wind up, so I won’t wonder too long. 🙄

Maybe todays the day the op should start drinking gin. Maybe kill off some of those special brain cells of hers 😂

Maybe in OP's world, we could pay people based on how hard they work. Drs would still do OK, nurses, careworkers, childminders, and teachers would be raking it in.

I don't imagine people in finance would fare well, though, especially those on the same intellectual level as OP. And those who are retired would be fucked.

I almost think you do not deserve the feedback people are giving.
If you are suggesting a policy line on behalf of a political party to test the water I hope you realise the feedback is that your proposal is a vote loser.
We don’t want to live in such a society as you propose.
It existed before welfare was introduced.
And what a terrible place it was for the majority. No thankyou.

They die because they serve no purpose to society.
That's the point of the Op's post.
Some people want to turn the clock back to bodies on the non-existent streets.

I'll pay for a bit of road and charge you to use it!! The thing you are against is called society. Go live in a cave and kiss your hard earned money.

You want to know that you can get an ambulance in minutes but you don't care about the poor parent watching their child die on the floor because they can't afford the ambulance. Good grief.

Also, you're absolutely crackers if you think hard work = money. I get paid pretty well and I don't do much in the grand scheme of things.
Yet there are people breaking their back in fields, working long shifts in sweaty factories without proper breaks etc, getting paid pennies!! Who's working harder?

Well that sounds like a great solution to me! CEOs of businesses who play golf each afternoon might get a surprise (I genuinely know some, not making that up).

I suspect that whole OP says they worked in finance, they didn't have a very significant career.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants

In the whole of my 77 years I have never, ever 'lived on the hard work of others' nor have I ever claimed welfare benefits, and speaking from that perspective, you, my dear, are an idiot.

As you said in your OP, you haven't thought this through.

I'm sure many of the raise the flag types might agree with you and absolutely love the idea of such a nasty vicious, dog eat dog, every man for himself society, until, of course, they realise, that all the stuff they currently get for nothing would be taken away from them.

As a pp said, maybe you should take yourself to USA where you might have a taste of something starting to go that way.

"Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else."
or perhaps you could leave and find a country with no social care.

Great idea, OP. And those children whose parents die and can't fend for themselves or those of us who become disabled, chronically ill or otherwise incapacitated and have used up nearly all their funds have to pay for their own execution with the last remaining funds. Job done. Poor, disabled and ill people eliminated - no more need to worry about welfare for anyone.

I don't believe I am stupid. Went to uni over 35 years ago. Did more qualifications after. Worked all my life paying high band taxes

Do you think it could be your pre frontal cortex breaking down? I’d ask you who the Prime Minister was but I’m not 100% sure myself. What year is it?

It's sounds like the daft idealism that comes from someone who's never had to actually work before, or were in privileged or lucky circumstances that they've never seen how things actually work in real life.

Hard work, or excellent work, often just gets an employee more work and less respect from their manager. They see you as the classroom swot, someone who's willingly put their hand up to be exploited. Often works like that in the corporate world.

Yep!