To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

[LettingTheBadThingsGo]

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

YABU for not putting a vote in this. If you had done, I reckon you'd pretty much get 100% YABU.

Police for a start. Private police? Police only for the wealthy? How does that even work?

I wish people would stop with the whole rich people work harder than people who aren’t rich trope.

I think it's going that way OP, slowly and surely. DH was in a huge amount of pain recently. A&E was a shocker. We paid for a private scan, which was more than worth it. It might help your argument if everyone gets a flat salary to start with, otherwise how do your pay for these services? At the moment it divides society even more between the haves and have-nots. I've also paid for private healthcare but a lot of people can't. If you pay the police that sounds a bit like corruption. Also, if everything's transactional, what happens to morality or the law? I wouldn't be against voluntary crowd-funding to get this 7 billion debt that Andy Burnham is going to inherit reduced. Also allow people to give up their state pension, winter fuel allowance if they don't need it to go back into the pot and benefit others.

good points

and follwoing your points society reverts to tribes like in genghis khan times etc, societeys survived long berfore modern times, eg da Vinci's time etc so in many ways its possible to remake a different type of society,

All very well until you have a life changing accident meaning that you can’t work, or a disabled child who will require 24 hour care forever or the spouse that you rely on financially because you both agreed that you’d take a break from work to bring up a family tragically dies and you no longer have a job or career.

Also society needs people in low paid jobs - I’m sure you want people to keep public toilets and streets clean, serve you when you eat out, deliver your shopping etc etc. Who will do these jobs if everyone needs to earn enough to pay for their kids’ education and doctor’s appointments?

(said as a higher rate tax payer, with a higher rate tax payer husband with no disabled children etc etc ).

I also think it's really important that you're challenged on your bigoted view that children with SEN are automatically not the bright kids, or that kids with SEN can just be written off as disruptors who ruin the education of bright kids. Lots of bright kids have SEN, SEN does not mean disruptive, and lots of disruptive kids don't have SEN. Your view is just pure prejudice.

Your neighbour next door can't afford the fire brigade - therefore the fire spreads to your house

Your childs teacher cant afford the doctor so becomes very ill and your child has to have supply teachers who do not teach the full curriculum

Your barista cannot afford the doctor and also cannot afford to take time off work so passes on their flu to you.

People who cannot keep a job are homeless - increasing violence and crime on your nearby streets and town centre

Crime increases as people cant afford to get police there in 5 min meaning criminals become bolder and more violent

People on lower wages - support staff and cleaners etc cant afford to commute in to the city centre due to high transport costs and mileage charges - they also cant afford to rent in the centre so you can no longer get your office cleaned, your garden weeded or your lunchtime sandwich.

Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off.

Oh, what a lovely world it would be if that sentence was true.

Some of the hardest working people I've met are poor.

but many workers would argue society needs people to do the roles, but why should they be low paid,

I’m relatively right wing, but this is a terrible idea. You’d essentially just end up with slums and wealthy compounds you’d be too scared to leave.

If you get mugged and call the police and pay the bill, do you also have to pay the bill for the cost of putting the person in prison? Who pays the police in the case of murder when the victim is dead?

And then there are essentially no laws against crimes where the poor are the victims. It won’t be long before the rapists and murderers allowed to pillage the lower classes accidentally target a wealthy person who could’ve afforded the police. And the chances of the wealthy being attacked will sky rocket when there as a criminal sub culture running rife.

And do you think we will have a sufficiently skilled workforce if only the wealthy children get schooling? I wouldn’t have been educated in that world, and I probably pay more tax than you. My cousin wouldn’t have been either and she’s one of the people you’d want to go to if you had a gynae issue.

Have to seen how this works in the USA..?pretty shit

Hahaha this is so ridiculous.
could you imagine, a charge for police call out!! ‘Erm… my daughter was just murdered’, ‘oh OK, that’s £300k please for a man hours investigating and then prosecution’…
People wouldn’t/couldn’t pay. There would be civil unrest, no one would be safe. Education would be unattainable for the many because of it were charged for, so there would be limited healthcare, dentistry, decent policing services, or education, even if you could afford it 😂😂
and a ‘country charge’ for defence! You mean TAX 😂😂😂

OH. MY. WORD. The ignorance is mind blowing. Please take your own advice and as you don’t like it here, feel free to go and live elsewhere.

Is this a homework question by any chance?

well folks now you know you need to keep paying taxes to prevent the ops society

so why then do so many companin about paying tax ?

Get yourself off to country that is like that.

It’s an interesting thought experiment, but it falls apart pretty quickly.

You say you want the police and an ambulance within five minutes, but then propose abolishing the tax system that pays for them. Private systems don’t magically create more doctors, nurses, paramedics or police officers. They just mean those who can pay get seen first.

The idea that everyone can simply “save” for disability, cancer, a premature baby, or a child with profound needs ignores the reality that many of those costs run into hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions, of pounds over a lifetime. Most working people couldn’t self-insure against that.

The irony is that you’d still need compulsory contributions for defence, roads, street lighting and countless other services. That’s… taxation, just with a different name.

And if policing becomes a paid-for service, what happens when your neighbour can’t afford to report the burglar who then comes for your house next? Infectious disease, crime, education and child protection all affect everyone, not just the individual paying the bill.

Finally, calling anyone who disagrees a “lifetime welfare claimant” ignores the fact that most people claiming benefits are pensioners, disabled people, carers, or people in work receiving support because wages don’t meet the cost of living.

The UK certainly needs a conversation about how public money is spent and how to make services work better. But abolishing the welfare state and expecting everyone to fend entirely for themselves has been tried in various forms throughout history, and it tends to produce greater inequality rather than better outcomes.

(I have a public health degree)

I don't believe it.

in terms of education there are many ways and methods in the past right back to aztec, tribes, as an example and people built civilisations so people would still study and learn, in theory we do not need the present education system we have

Well said. Thank you for your time and common sense to answer OP so calmly and eloquently.

Basically anyone who is disabled/unwell/ injured/ mentally unwell/ autistic/ elderly/ retired/ and so on, are on their own, and there by the grace of God they go?😳😬

Goodness. I've decided not to read the full thread. It might upset me too much.

Not a chance. my dad took a stroke at 39 and had brain damage permenantly. He couldn't work or be left alone my mum had to care for him plus her 2 kids. If there was no help we would have been can't say the word on here but sounds like mucked.

I would guess maybe about 11 or 12. Certainly under 16.

This sounds like a good plot for a dystopian film.