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To want a society where we just pay for ourselves

1000 replies

LettingTheBadThingsGo · 02/07/2026 11:15

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BunnyLake · 02/07/2026 15:09

LouLou198 · 02/07/2026 15:02

Obviously never worked for the NHS! Paying for an ambulance won’t make it quicker.

Exactly. OP thinks they’ll be their personal chauffeur just parked up close by waiting for their call. Proves the very poor critical thinking abilities of OP.

whoahokeycokey · 02/07/2026 15:09

Because sadly there’s always a greedy fu@ker business that will take advantage! Maybe that’s where we need to start.

CremeEggsForBreakfast · 02/07/2026 15:09

Your background is FINANCES and you can't see why this is an awful idea!?

The American healthcare system is what you're proposing and their idea of "care" terrifies me. It's all driven by money and not what's in the best interest of the patient.
Just in maternity services, I have seen mothers charged money to have skin-to-skin with their babies. Obstetricians are involved in the majority of births so unnecessary interventions like inductions, epidurals, and episiotomies are done as standard (and you're given a lovely bill for them at the end).
Medication in the US is a marketing game and people are priced out of the medicines they desperately need because the manufacturer wants to make a profit.
People are terrified of someone calling an ambulance for them when they're critically unwell because they can't afford to pay for it.

Now imagine applying the same principles to the police!! It doesn't bear thinking about.

Just because you're setting aside (what would have been) your tax and NI contribution each month doesn't mean you will be able to afford all the assistance you need. Imagine how well-off the average person would be if they could afford years and years of privatised cancer care...

FastFood · 02/07/2026 15:10

That's a very nice idea.
For a dystopian horror book.

LastoneYawning · 02/07/2026 15:10

HumberSquid · 02/07/2026 15:05

Well they used to run the fire service by subscription - it worked really badly. Can't wait to see the same principle applied to national defence.

How would it work for things like sewage? Pay or dump it in the street?

If I choose not to pay for prisons, does that mean I can't be sent to one?

I would like to see certain things (the Royal family being top of the list) paid for by public subscription though.

Edited

Oh. Yes. Sewage. I forgot that one. Let’s go back to chamber pots being emptied into the streets. Forget Victorian era treatment of the poor, let’s go medieval. While we are at it, let’s hang the starving poor for stealing apples. Right we are then. Good. That’s all sorted then! 😂

JHound · 02/07/2026 15:11

LettingTheBadThingsGo · 02/07/2026 12:37

Thanks for acknowledging that the current system is not working.

The system was designed with a sort of social contract that everybody would support themselves and only get welfare if they truly needed it. This has been so abused that we are now in this situation where lots of people are working hard, paying tons of tax and getting nothing for it practically. Others are milking the system and laughing at the poor mugs working for it. There is no social contract anymore.

So far everyone is saying my idea is terrible. I wonder if most of the people who have posted so far are unemployed, claiming benefits and sitting at home. Thus of course they want the free money to continue.
I just can't understand why Mr Hardworker who pays a ton of tax and gets nothing for it would want to continue like this.

"Mr Hardworker"

Oh it's a bored manosphere poster.

menopausalfart · 02/07/2026 15:12

@FastFood Maybe this is King researching his new book?

SowWhatNow · 02/07/2026 15:12

LettingTheBadThingsGo · 02/07/2026 13:02

Thanks for taking the time to write out your views. I understand what you are saying.
However I think there are lots of arguements.

For example how many people are watching their bright, clever children have a rubbish education because they are in a class too big which is being disrupted constantly by sen children. By having a small education budget nobody seems to be getting a good education anymore (unless they pay to send their kids privately.)
So who is benefitting in this education system paid for by the state/taxpayer. Parents of sen kids are writing threads constantly saying their child is not getting the right treatment. Parents of bright children are writing threads saying they are sick of their kids education being disrupted by the sen kids. The teachers are run ragged and quitting. All this because the needs of the system far outweigh the money we have to run it.

So the answer is to give more money to education and hire more teachers and have smaller classes perhaps splitting children into bright, average and disabled. That sounds great except the country can't afford to allocate more to education because of all the other demands on it.

The same argument could be applied to healthcare and no doubt lots of areas of spending.

Can we all at least acknowledge that the current way of doing things is not working.

I think there needs to be another category "Bright, average, disabled and....LettingTheBadThingsGo."

Category for yourself.

Beachbeach · 02/07/2026 15:12

I had this sort of thinking for about 6 months when I was about 14 and completely ignorant. Then I grew up

daffodilandtulip · 02/07/2026 15:13

lifeturnsonadime · 02/07/2026 11:19

Mmmmm hard no OP.

Disabled people dying on the streets is not something a civilised country should aspire to.

Absolutely not. But the balance has tipped astronomically in the other direction, that it’s not worth going to work for some people.

Stowickthevast · 02/07/2026 15:14

So @LettingTheBadThingsGo are you planning on redistributing all current wealth so everyone starts on an even footing in your new utopia?

MangosteenSoda · 02/07/2026 15:14

Society is much stronger when people work as a collective and support each other. There’s a reason why human beings have been joining ever bigger collectives as time progresses.

A society of complete individuals as you describe would not function because so many people would end up disenfranchised that there wouldn’t be enough of a workforce for you to pay people to do things for you.

But I’m assuming that this is a wind up. I don’t believe someone could have had a supposedly successful career in finance and actually think this set up would work.

Are companies still taxed in this dystopia?

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 02/07/2026 15:14

We would of course have to disallow any form of inheritance, or parental support after the age of about 16.
After all - why should the pesky kids benefit from what others have earned? Everyone must stand on their own two feet - certainly not the feet of their parents...

Singlemumsurvivor · 02/07/2026 15:14

From your own admission you are now retired. I guessed that. You are someone who has too much time on their hands. You remind me of an ex boss who had a long commute to work, this gave him plenty of time to come up with ludicrous ideas for the service. We all thought he was mad until we found out he had a neurological condition and had to retire.

BunnyLake · 02/07/2026 15:16

TheOliveWriter · 02/07/2026 15:07

Are you Margaret ( there's no such thing as society) Thatcher reincarnated?

No such thing as society but conveniently there was such a thing as community when she closed the mental institutions for ‘care in the community’.

ThatCyanCat · 02/07/2026 15:17

Beachbeach · 02/07/2026 15:12

I had this sort of thinking for about 6 months when I was about 14 and completely ignorant. Then I grew up

I'm honestly wondering how old OP is.

BunnyLake · 02/07/2026 15:17

JHound · 02/07/2026 15:11

"Mr Hardworker"

Oh it's a bored manosphere poster.

They’re an utter twonk that’s for sure.

butterfluff · 02/07/2026 15:18

Probably the dumbest thing I’ve read on here in a while, perhaps ever.

Reallyneedsaholiday · 02/07/2026 15:19

LettingTheBadThingsGo · 02/07/2026 11:15

Okay this is going to get some backs up but it's also how I feel so..
I wish we could just live in a society where we all just pay for ourselves.
So you want to have children - you pay for it all yourself. No benefits of any kind.
You want to see a GP - You pay a fee and get the service
You need the police - You pay a fee and get the service
You want education for your kids - you pay for it and get to choose where to send them

Nobody gets a pension or any benefits. However we all know this and as such we pay no tax/NI and save for ourselves.

Obviously there would have to be a phased input over a large number of years (like 30)

I want to know that if I need the police I can get them here in 5 mins. If I need an ambulance I want to know I can get it here in 5 mins. I don't want to not have these services because there is a rubbish 'free' service because there is not enough being allocated to them because it's all being spent on things I disagree with (welfare, council houses)

This would make everyone responsible for themselves. Those who work hard would be better off. Those who don't work will be worse off. Seems fair to me.

Everyone would save from day 1 in case they become ill or disabled and need to support themselves or have a disabled child (although they could choose not to have children in the first place).

I find it very weird that we live in a capitalist society where so many people are being supported by welfare. To me that is the opposite of a capitalist society.

Obviously there are some things that could never be allocated to each person such as defence of the country. There would have to still be a 'country charge' to every person to cover things that just could not be split. Street lighting would probably have to come under this as well. However roads could be covered by a charge to each person based on their mileage each year.

Yes it would take lots of thought and as I said would have to be implemented over a large number of years. However this would lead to a more productive society as well as better services. Obviously on the basis of a thread I haven't thought everything out but hopefully you all get the idea.

Anybody who didn't want to live like that could leave of course and live somewhere else.

So anyone else agree - no tax or ni - save and pay for yourself. Just pay a 'country charge' to cover things that can't be allocated like defence of country. Everything else is private (healthcare, police, pensions) and you save for it all yourself.

The only people who I can imagine not wanting this is those that live on the hard work of others ie life time welfare claimants. For everyone else surely they would be better off.

You absolutely CAN live that way. Live somewhere else, where this IS no welfare state, and pray everyday that you don’t end up disabled, and that your investments pay off. Please remember to leave your state pension behind.

BunnyLake · 02/07/2026 15:20

ThatCyanCat · 02/07/2026 15:17

I'm honestly wondering how old OP is.

They say they’re retired. Their brain is so addled I’d guess about 155. They miss the Victorian times of their youth.

OneInEight · 02/07/2026 15:23

I want to know how you propose in your new society of paying for road repair. Maybe we just buy a bucket of tarmac each and fill in the pothole of our choosing.

youalright · 02/07/2026 15:24

Well i was born disabled so im screwed but the first thing i would do is rob op so I can afford to live and she wouldn't even be able to call the police on me as she would have no money left after I emptied all her bank accounts

TedithTalk · 02/07/2026 15:26

I'm a higher rate taxpayer and full-time lawyer, so you don't get to write off my opinion on the assumption that anyone who works would agree with you.

There is an astonishing lack of understanding in your post; so much so that it really is hard to believe you're ignorant rather than just goady. I think there is a good chance you're just on the wind up... but here goes my response anyway.

It costs the UK government £7,000 per year to educate a child in primary school, and £7,800 per year in secondary school. So, under your system, every person who has a child has to have £7,000 - £7,800 per year available to pay for that child's education. The median pre-tax wage in this country is £32,890, meaning the average worker with a child has to spend 21% of their income on the education of each of their children (and that's assuming the cost stays the same, which is unlikely in a system where all schools are private schools and thus required to be profit-making).

Then we have healthcare. The average cost per patient of healthcare in the UK is c.£3,500 per year. It more than doubles once a person is over eighty. And if, God forbid, you get cancer, the cost could be tens or even hundreds of thousands of pounds per year. The average annual cost of health insurance in the US converts to £6,689.49 per person, so that's another 20% of our median wage earner's salary gone, on healthcare for themselves and the education of their child alone. Already the costs they bear are significantly higher than their tax burden is under the current system, and we haven't even considered the upkeep of roads and infrastructure, their pension, payment of their share of the national debt (does this conveniently vanish in your scenario?), defence and transport.

In summary, the overwhelming majority of people in this country couldn't come close to being able to afford to privately fund the services they use, which are currently a joint burden among us all. A joint burden from which we ALL benefit, because having a healthy, educated population where most people are literate and have access to vaccines and other forms of community shielding healthcare benefits us all.

And perhaps you'll just smugly assert that people shouldn't have children, if they can't afford £11,000 a year to educate them and access healthcare, and I'm sure the natural consequence of your insane and dystopian vision of society is that far, far fewer people would have them. And then what would happen is the workforce would steadily disappear, as we wouldn't have enough young people growing up and becoming doctors, nurses, teachers, farmers, refuse collectors, scientists, software developers and hospitality workers.

Essential services, all of which depend on a large, skilled workforce would fail.

The economy would dramatically contract as there were fewer consumers, workers, entrepreneurs. Businesses would close without the workers and customers needed to keep them going.

Universities, research labs, skilled trades and cultural institutions all rely on apprenticeships, education and a steady supply of new workers, so these would also fail.

Even if a wealthy minority continued to have children, they would be too few to sustain a technologically complex civilisation, and complete societal collapse would inevitably follow.

Which part of this, specifically, is appealing to you?

PenelopeJoanSterling · 02/07/2026 15:26

daffodilandtulip · 02/07/2026 15:13

Absolutely not. But the balance has tipped astronomically in the other direction, that it’s not worth going to work for some people.

and thats why the op wrote the op

Beachbeach · 02/07/2026 15:26

ThatCyanCat · 02/07/2026 15:17

I'm honestly wondering how old OP is.

They’ve said retired which is astounding. Imagine all that life experience and still so shuttered

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