NHS employees with kids whose schools have closed due to heat... Are you being allowed to take carers leave?

[mummabubs]

So I'm an NHS employee and like I imagine many others are in a bit of a tricky position given the school closures this week. My children's primary school has never been renowned for great communication... so yesterday we received an email first thing that acknowledged other schools are closing this week due to weather but they were going to remain open. Then an email sent at 5:45pm last night stating that having reviewed the weather and guidance from the local council they would now be shut today and tomorrow, which includes the breakfast club that my kids attend from 7:45 so that I'm able to go to work.

I provide input into wards (but not ward staff like nursing if that makes sense) so I can't work remotely other than attending teams calls if they're booked in. I have no local family at all (nearest is 150 miles away), DH working away already this week and the only childcare in our village is that provided by the school (so is also closed). I told my line manager straight away that I will need to be at home to provide childcare today and she is saying that I need to take today as A/L because I was "given notice" of the school closing, but this feels really unreasonable as I don't think telling parents the evening before does give any realistic time to seek alternative childcare (and which I have no option for anyway!) I know the other parents at the school who work for the same NHS body have been told it definitely comes under special (carers) leave, but was wondering before I challenge my line manager's decision whether others in the NHS are being told to take it either as A/L or carers leave?

Of course the irony is I would much rather be in work today where there is air con as opposed to stuck in our boiling house with two very overheated and overtired young children, but hey ho! 🤣

Agree with the others. Email HR and cc your manager in.

We need more managers like you in the NHS, thank you for showing compassion and understanding towards your staff!

Maybe it all happened so quickly your line manager hadn't had time to get things straight either. Glad you got it sorted. Don't need this stress in a heatwave.

I work for the NHS and was told if I had needed to be home with the kids, I could take carers leave/work from home. It just so happens i had booked off today for a day to myself before school hols (that failed 😂).

I’m a nhs manager, I would give you paid carers leave for today but would expect you to sort something for tomorrow, or take unpaid leave/annual leave/swap a day for next week if you work part time. If you have a job where you can do some work from home I’d expect you to do that today if your kids are primary age or above, accepting that you wouldn’t do as much as normal.

I have an employee who has children at high school and has tried to take carers leave when the school water went off and they had to have a day off. I didn’t give it in those circumstances, but offered annual leave or unpaid leave

This is very dependent on board. I have worked in terrible health boards who state they have a ‘family friendly policy’ but if your kids interfere with their overall plan then it’s suddenly forgotten and parental leave can’t be approved. However I now work with an amazing team who has given various members of the team parental leave at the drop of a hat for many reason.

So I would respond with thanks for understanding if you could put it through as carers leave or parental leave given the nature that would be great. Thanks

Seen already answered by HR but just wanting to chime in to say that this absolutely this counts as Carer's Leave.

NHS worker here and I’ve always been told that carers leave can be used in emergency situations (child unexpectedly ill etc) for a day but the second day alternative arrangements should be made or annual leave/ unpaid leave take if necessary.

Mine older now but previously was always given carers leave if school closed for snow. Contact HR or union and challenge.

NHS or not everyone is entitled to emergency carers leave, such a school closing last minute would come under. Probably unpaid though, which is fair enough.

Glad you've had some reassurance from your HR team on this. I'm a senior manager in an NHS organisation (in England) and would absolutely grant a member of my time emergency domestic leave for a short notice school closure. If it was going to go on for 2 or 3 days, I would expect them to try and make other arrangements - partly just so they didn't exhaust their 3 days of paid emergency leave all in one go. This assumes the child(ren) require lots of looking after and aren't old enough to be left to get on with things themselves - if older kids I would just tell the person to WFH, but I would expect them to be working not doing childcare in that scenario.

My NHS manager set it all out in an email about how to manage work with extreme heat weather warnings, eg remote appointments if no air con, special leave if school shut and no other childcare available etc. Clear, straight forward options. Fair to all then as we're all told the same thing at the same time.

Just to clarify from your post… you would agree to paid carers leave for today but at the same time you would still expect them to work from home if the children were 4 years old or over?

our trust allowed 1 day carers leave for the heat wave. After this we’ve been told to use our AL.

NHS manager here, it depends if you’re full or part time have you already used any carers leave in the last 12 months! Special paid leave is 6 days of which 3 days is carers leave and if you’re part time it’s pro rata. So if you have used all your carers leave it would be taken as annual leave. If used/booked all your annual leave it would be authorised unpaid leave.

However the NHS has services to deliver and if they have everyone with children the week off it would not only compromise patient safety but also appointments, operations would have to be cancelled! Hospitals are generally far hotter than schools but they can’t close because of a few days of warm weather!

staff with children also need a back up plan for childcare in these events! I’ve never had to use carers leave for school closures as I’ve a plan in place for these situations!

Yes, I’d give carers leave if it wasn’t a job where work could be done from home. If they could do some work from home I’d expect them to get as much as they could done, but would understand that they wouldn’t do as much as usual due to having children at home. We are a busy service and there’s lots of service development work that can be done from home

Just to add, it would be very unusual in our service for staff not to have an option for childcare. Most of them have agreements with other parents that they will take turns if something like this happens and whoever has a day off will have the friendship group. When my children were primary age I had Mondays off, so provided emergency childcare for their classmates or on inset days etc. Other parents had different days off, so provided it then

So if they could work from home then they would just be having a day working from home? And it would not be carers leave?

Or do you mean that you would give a member of staff carers leave but that you would still expect them to do some work whilst on carers leave?

Apparently as we've been given sufficient notice we need to first try and explore all other options, then Annual leave. In exceptional circumstances it's unpaid leave. ( Community funded social enterprise)

Not NHS but a support worker for a private company. Ive just had to phone my work to let them know about my sons school and that my middle child is struggling with the heat so told them that I needed to be home to keep an eye on him (he suffered he exhaustion before) and they were fine with it. It just comes under unpaid time off

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a “back up plan”
lots of people work remotely
lots of people don’t have family who can be back-up
and we can’t have kids in the offices

we try and adapt to the trusts policy which includes compassion

I'm glad you had a positive outcome, OP.

FWIW I do think there's misinformation on here though and I can't help correcting! Firstly, the legal right to emergency time off for dependents is only unpaid. Secondly there is no such thing as an NHS-wide Special Leave policy...each NHS Trust is a separate employer who will have their own policies in place.

Given the above, this is only based on my own experience but as a general principle I believe most Trusts are very generous in comparison to the legal minimum and will provide about a week of paid emergency dependents leave per year (called different things in different Trusts but the term carers leave is a bit unhelpful because carers leave in law refers to carers of dependents with disabilities).

Generally (again based only on my own experience) only the first day of emergency dependents leave is paid emergency leave and the rest is either A/L or unpaid. And once you've had your 5 days in a year that's it. It is generally at manager's discretion but should be applied consistently...hence having a policy.

You’re right. So lobby your MP to make sure there’s adequate funding for schools to maintain their buildings and provide way to keep them and the people within them cool. Society has to function - people need hospitals and people also have children. Both are required. Staff in hospitals work 24/7 but school is only available 9am until 3:30pm, wrap around care is hit and miss.

“I never had to use carers leave”
Well good for you! But try getting off your high horse and standing in other people’s shoes. Your ignorance on the matter isn’t the flex you think it is.

Senior nurse here, we were told by HR and execs that no carers leave was to be authorised. Staff could use annual leave or work the shift back another time.