NHS employees with kids whose schools have closed due to heat... Are you being allowed to take carers leave?

[mummabubs]

So I'm an NHS employee and like I imagine many others are in a bit of a tricky position given the school closures this week. My children's primary school has never been renowned for great communication... so yesterday we received an email first thing that acknowledged other schools are closing this week due to weather but they were going to remain open. Then an email sent at 5:45pm last night stating that having reviewed the weather and guidance from the local council they would now be shut today and tomorrow, which includes the breakfast club that my kids attend from 7:45 so that I'm able to go to work.

I provide input into wards (but not ward staff like nursing if that makes sense) so I can't work remotely other than attending teams calls if they're booked in. I have no local family at all (nearest is 150 miles away), DH working away already this week and the only childcare in our village is that provided by the school (so is also closed). I told my line manager straight away that I will need to be at home to provide childcare today and she is saying that I need to take today as A/L because I was "given notice" of the school closing, but this feels really unreasonable as I don't think telling parents the evening before does give any realistic time to seek alternative childcare (and which I have no option for anyway!) I know the other parents at the school who work for the same NHS body have been told it definitely comes under special (carers) leave, but was wondering before I challenge my line manager's decision whether others in the NHS are being told to take it either as A/L or carers leave?

Of course the irony is I would much rather be in work today where there is air con as opposed to stuck in our boiling house with two very overheated and overtired young children, but hey ho! 🤣

I would challenge that I think, can you email HR department and check as you won’t be only one asking them the question today.

contact HR directly and ask for clarification on the policy regarding emergency school closures.

Do not let them phone you, get an answer in writing. In the UK, employees have a legal right to take time off for dependants in an emergency, this includes unexpected disruption to childcare arrangements!

I’m an nhs line manager and we’ve authorised carers leave this week for people because of school closures, nurseries closing and childminders not working.
we have HR managers for each division and we took guidance from them it should be a trust policy and not a case of what your own manager individually thinks should happen.

I’d contact HR directly yourself and speak to them, nobody should be penalised and having to use their annual leave. Sorry your manager is being so awkward!

I also have a member of staff with a disabled older child and their day centre setting enabling my colleague to come to work is closed so she is off aswell

people just need to be a little bit compassionate really and think how they would feel under the circumstances.

Usually careers leave is unpaid - if taking it as annual leave this time means you don’t have enough annual leave left for school holidays etc, could you use your unpaid parental leave (up to 3 weeks per year) to cover these instead later in the year?

Definitely challenge this. If you have not yet taken more than your annual allowance of carers leave then it would be rediculous not to grant it in this instance. I work for the NHS too and as a line manager would certainly allow carers leave for this. No way could you have organised something for kids other than family or friends at that stage.

In the NHS you can have up to six days a year (pro rata) paid carers leave. I haven't requested any in the past year so should be able to request paid leave. I barely have enough annual leave to cover the school holidays as it is and never used A/L for 'self care' so it just really stings to be told I need to use this.

Yup, very much the expectation in my Trust that a heatwave has been predicted for several days now so people have had time to make a back-up plan. Same happens with predicted snow days.

Thanks for all comments so far, I have emailed HR and hopefully will hear back from them.

Time off for dependents is a statutory right if it is unexpected and you have no other options for childcare. This is particularly the case as earlier in the week the school said they would be open. This fits exactly under "unexpected breakdown in childcare". They have to give you unpaid time off by law, not force you to take annual leave. See ACAS time of for dependents.

That's interesting given the other replies so far suggest some are viewing it as unexpected. Admittedly our school didn't help by literally communicating that they were going to remain open only to them U turn on this at the last minute. Where I am geographically it's a 50/50 as to which schools are closed and which are open or on reduced days, definitely not blanket closure.

Also the six days you mentioned is not nhs wide. It might be in their policy but even that does not match with the law.

The law does not say how much time an employee can take off, or how many occasions. It just says the amount should be 'reasonable.
5.45 pm the night before is not reasonable amount of time to plan, particularly in your personal circumstances which they do have to consider. They cant say Sally arranged childcare so you should have been able to. Its not a blanket rule. Also, if an employer wants to force you to take annual leave on certain days they have to give you notice at least twice as long as the leave they want you to take (that shows clearly this cannot be annual leave). See ACAS asking for and taking holiday.

Acas helped me fight this with my nhs employer.

an employer wants to force you to take annual leave on certain days they have to give you notice at least twice as long as the leave they want you to take

This is a cracking rule! Slight variation also works for cancellation, rejection and automatic acceptance if you time the request right and manager dilly dallys.

Go directly to HR. Especially if you know of others who work for the Trust who’ve been allowed carers leave. 5:45 the evening before is absolutely not adequate notice. Your line manager is being unreasonable and making a unilateral decision. Challenge it.

But many schools have stayed open and the OP’s school actually communicated that they would be staying open, so that’s a moot point.

Thanks all, so HR have already got back to me and confirmed that this definitely constitutes paid carers leave under the Special Leave policy. I have forwarded this to my manager and have no doubts there'll be repercussions for me in work but felt better for having HR's backing.

I work for the nhs and my boss would have given my carers leave. Definitely challenge this as seems very unfair

We got an email at 8pm last night that school was doing a half day - not enough time to organise anything significant in terms of cover. Thankfully I can rejig diaries to organise school pickups at a stupidly inconvenient time of day - otherwise I'd have to cancel things. I'm lucky I'm in a team where we've got relative autonomy over diaries and WFH if needed - but if I was on a ward I'd be snookered.

Absolutely love your username! Yes, absolutely. I'd even offered to try and do my afternoon meeting from home with the kids here, but unfortunately my patient facing appointments can't be done remotely. I do love my job, but what feels like power games from management at times like this doesn't do much for morale. This is definitely not a lovely relaxing day sipping cocktails in the garden for me (which is how I would choose to spend my annual leave!) Half our house is already sweat-inducing and I'm genuinely contemplating taking both children to the supermarket just to make use of public air conditioning, which I think demonstrates how desperate the situation is 🤣🤦🏻‍♀️

So carers leave is management discretion. Technically if you are given notice the day before then they can refuse carers leave as you had adequate notice to get alternative childcare. Unless your manager is nice and understands that's totally ridiculous then the rules are AL in my old trust.
I have now stopped telling them anything beforehand and I just tell them on the day. Remember you only get 3 days though and it doesn't count half days in many trusts - so if you use a half day they will take it as a full one.
It's a really easy way for management to scupper goodwill..

Very true. My husband has been a line manager in the NHS and couldn't believe this wasn't being granted. I've never taken the mick with leave and feel I give my job my all, so doesn't feel very supportive to have this response from my manager. I didn't want to out myself too much but I work in Wales, the all-Wales special leave policy (which covers all health boards) states six days per year, it sadly doesn't surprise me to hear this rule is different across the border!

When I worked in the NHS I would definitely have given this to my team as paid carers leave.

Glad it's sorted. But if you aren't informed by midday the day before, so you have some 'office hours' left to make new arrangements, then it's nowhere near sufficient notice. What are you expected to be able to do at 5.45, or 8 pm like another poster.

Late emails like this are one of DPs bugbears. Not about the same issue, but he always complains that people who send emails that he's going to find annoying (in his case, usually about shift changes), they send them 5 minutes for they're about to leave for the day, so recipients don't have time to read them and call them to argue about it.

Check your employment contract OP and consult HR but I’m sure you won’t be the only parent in this position over these two days.
The UK is just never prepared for extremes in the weather……..snow fall overnight, schools closed……..high temperatures, schools closed……..bad weather forecast for afternoon, schools closed! It happens year on year.

Management within the NHS is toxic.
Moving forwards please keep an email trail of conversations with your line manager (including emailing yourself a summary if necessary). You shouldn’t have repercussions at work for envoking a statutory right - but then many of us here understand how the NHS works and the sort of power trips some management have. I really hope nothing comes further of this.