Child attacked at preschool - need advice on how this has been handled

[Preschoolpickle]

My 3 year old has been attending preschool since January. He has settled in very well and seems to really enjoy it. My older child went there too and it has always been excellent.

Last week he was attacked by another child. The accident report says that it was unwitnessed by staff. It took them several hours after the incident (time written on the accident report) to phone me to let me know. The accident report followed later that evening. I phoned the GP for advice on his physical injury and they advised taking him to minor injuries, fortunately no lasting damage.

The manager informed me that the child that attacked her has SEN, and is ‘very fast and very unpredictable’, and has attacked another child once before and has hurt staff. This week I have been in for a meeting to discuss it.

My main concerns are the length of time between the incident and them phoning me, and the fact that this wasn’t witnessed by staff. Given that the other child is a known risk, it feels like a supervision and safeguarding failure that they weren’t being watched. In the meeting they advised that they would keep a closer eye on the child in future and try to keep them away from my son but they couldn’t guarantee it won’t happen again. I’m still worried, and I just don’t know what to do. I’m loath to move him when he’s so settled there, but I am concerned.

I could really do with some advice. In this situation, would you move your child?

I also think the child needs to be removed from the nursery after two attacks.

Surely it's not the same as school and the nursery can easily remove a place from a child if there are issues? I feel for the family of the SEN child but it's unfair to put the other children at risk.

I don’t know where you are but where I am a redacted (no names) record is available for scrutiny.

No, nurseries can't easily remove a place.
Almost all nursery income now comes through the LA now which gives them a lot of control.
And many preschool age children hurt other children. 2 strikes and you're out would mean toddlers expelled left, right and centre.

@mrsbowes this sounds pretty extreme though given the child had to go to hospital/small injuries and it was nearly in the eye. I would say that's more serious than a typical hit/shove/bite.

You might be right but I would have expected there to be a clause in the contract where they can remove kids if needed. They aren't getting SEN funding (hence 1:8 ratio). So just the same funding as any other child for the 30 hours etc. Do the local authority get that involved?

If this was an unwitnessed incident, how do they know what happened?

@GrowingaseedI don’t believe the LA gets involved with the behaviour policies at private nurseries. However these are very young dc, so they do need some time to settle. In days gone by, we gave statements to pre school dc which named state run nurseries and of course other dc were there. Nursery isn’t risk free. It’s almost certain some dc will exhibit behaviour difficulties in many nurseries and it’s growing.

I rather suspect it was a hard toy that injured the dc here. Something like a push along car or a hard edge on a toy if dc fell on it. It’s hard to think it was the fists of another 3 year old but could have been a kick.

The advice to take dc to see a heath professional is fairly standard if the nursery is unsure about what happened but a face injury is not likely to be concussion in my opinion so if no stitches needed, I’m not sure why this was needed. Covering backsides maybe?

Thank you all for your thoughts. Those of who mentioned that it being unwitnessed means that I don’t know it was a sustained attack, that’s partly true. However it’s completely obvious from the injuries that this wasn’t a quick hit/shove/pinch. Those things have all happened at preschool and I haven’t even mentioned it, because I do understand stand toddlers will toddler, but this is a different level.

I’d really welcome thoughts on whether to keep him there or move him. It seems such a shame to unsettle him (and utterly unfair!), but I am concerned that something like this could happen again.

Maybe get in touch with local education authority and the people who do checks on nurseries etc

move your child. What if your child is traumatised... then you send them in there all the time around that other child who caused harm... It wouldnt be me, not at that age.

its not unfair its looking after his best interests, what if it happens again since that other child is not being watched 1 to 1 and knows they got away with it before with your little one. Sad situation but needs must for your own child.

this, its not just a typical shove or hit its bigger than that!

@Growingaseed The GP advised over the phone about going to minor injuries. The GP didn’t see the child and we have no detailed description about what it is. My DD, when 2, fell on a shoe rack and had a cut above her eye but I didn’t go to any minor injury clinic. A hard edge on the face isn’t great but it’s a stretch to say it’s a sustained attack. The GP would say go to a clinic because it’s a child but there’s no lasting damage. It’s slightly over dramatic to suggest “nearly in the eye” is really serious. The important fact is, it’s not his eye. The op would be seeking damages if it was!

There is no guarantee whatsoever that another nursery will be full of “kind hands” dc. That’s la la land these days I’m afraid!

What did your child say happened? Can he/she speak well enough to tell you?
I feel like we need to see a photo to see how serious the injury is

We didn’t experience any problems like you experienced , but only used local part-time morning nurseries in small town/villages near us!

I think you need to read OP's updates

• Injured badly
• it may scar
• 'it’s completely obvious from the injuries that this wasn’t a quick hit/shove/pinch.'
• Another attacked on a child and hurt staff

This is not about 'kind hands'

Where is this?

Why do you think there is more of this behaviour now than there used to be - because it does seem to be much more prevalent now.

I was thinking the same. I understand that more children have diagnosed additional needs these days because of better understanding, earlier diagnosis etc. but it seems to me that those are the more mildly affected children who would in my day would have been labelled as “naughty” or “easily distracted”. Kids who are hugely violent would still have been diagnosed 30 years ago. So where do all these violent children come from? Is it more and more profound additional needs? Bad parenting?

@LiveLuvLaugh I think dc are humoured a lot more and expectations are low. I think most parents I knew, had higher requirements of dc. I do see poor parenting now and dc are not corrected or shown a better way to behave.

I frequently see people on mn saying rough behaviour is normal and YR classrooms are chaos. My DD1 started YR in 1997 and her classroom was not like this. A few boys probably were not ready for school but dc were fine when they got the hang of it. I was also a primary school governor elsewhere in a more deprived area. Dc there didn’t have the skills and preparedness for school I observed at DDs school but YR wasn’t chaos! Dc played more and there was a greater focus on skills fostering, because more dc didn’t have them, but I was never aware of violent dc and I was chair of governors. In that school we did have a few dc causing concern but no violence from young dc.

Im a strong believer in kind but firm parenting. Making sure no means no. Being clear about expectations and keeping language around what you want concise and not wordy. I do feel too many dc are very noisy, very demanding and unable to do what is asked of them.

I worked in education. Dc did have send back then, of course, and we did see some very disturbed dc, but they fairly quickly went to special school. However that was when more special school places were available. I think we need to revert to this model and have far more places available and have more part time units for these dc where educators can work with parents. The government doesn’t agree but we do see schools failing dc due to staffing levels and expertise. A shorter, earlier, intervention should be tried.

What is the injury, why havent you said?

Is it a cut, a bruise, large, small? was it bleeding, did it need stitches?

In my experience, yes there was a clause, no the nursery wouldn't enforce it. LA involved but useless/enforcing keeping a violent child in the setting and nursery clearly worried they'd have their funding contract removed if they went against it. Fortunately new setting couldn't be any more different.

I would pull my child out without hesitation.

What the fuck were the staff doing??

Another child ain't your concern. Your child is your only concern.

I can’t help thinking that some of the posters minimising this or saying that it’s unavoidable must work in nurseries or have children who are aggressive!

Personally, it wouldn’t be acceptable to me. I’d complain formally to all designated avenues, tell all the other parents of my acquaintance, remove my child immediately and look for alternative provision.

Of course they work in nurseries, that's how they know it happens 🤔

@EvelynBeatrice I think it can be minimised but it’s not wholly avoidable. Children, unfortunately, are not totally predictable and some sen ones definitely not. There’s a huge push to get these dc into nursery. It’s pretty well documented that more and more dc are like this an no nursery has 1:1 staffing. Therefore it’s very difficult to stop a child who suddenly throws something hard or kicks, for example. I’ve seen dc kick out whilst using play equipment for example, and that’s at a playgroup with mum present! The situations cannot be predicted 100.%. Parents can find another nursery but the sen children will still be in the nursery population. So unless they have send funding, there’s no staff to look at them 1:1 all the time. There rarely is at school either.