Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

I take it you’re not from Belfast? Your comment comes across as very naive. Yes, there are some very brave residents who stepped in to help last night but New Lodge is anything but a safe/quiet area! Crime rates are through the roof and it’s a very deprived place. Even the locals would agree on that.

I personally don't think any single men need to be processed for asylum or any similar claim. Return to sender.

I'm not excising any criminal behaviour. I am just trying to persuade people to respond to criminal behaviour using facts and statistics, rather than arriving at conclusions based on other things. If we want to make society safer, we should base our policy responses on facts, surely?

Exactly. Some of us live here. My kids clubs were cancelled this evening and daycare phoned all parents to lift kids early so they could get their staff home safely. My kids are terrified.

Very succinctly put 👏

The PP and a lot like her aren’t talking with facts, they talk using feeling.

If you don’t look the other way on these crimes then I’m going to assign this societal shame word of racist to you. That’s enough, no debate, you’ve been tarnished.

Similar to the previous thread where some tried to excuse the Sudanese man because he might’ve seen war. Or the whataboutism that we have violent men already so should happily invite more in or it’ll be yet again, mean and racist.

We see this with the current activist cults at the moment. Simple slogans they can’t really explain, playing down any data or history, using emotions or insults to oppose any other narrative…

As I said on the previous thread. Tedious.

So where do you get your facts from then? (Asking for a third time).

Don't let them get to you. Fortunately, people like @Blightfitting are a dying breed. As I said, the tide is turning, hard and fast. It's such a relief, and I am so relieved to see happening that I don't give a shiny dog's bollock that there are still a small minority of people claiming ANYone who dares to say anything against this individual (and his ilk) is racist. I'm just rolling my eyes at them, seriously....

Please come visit us in Small Heath Birmingham, a top notch example of failed assimilation. White not allowed painted in a wall there, if visiting a shop there and I'm wearing any slightly immodest I get spat and swore at. High proportion of immigrants there.

How upsetting and worrying for you 😢.

Exactly. Two minute hate - that attack.

No you are simply dismissing anyone who calls it out for what it is as a racist! Im
sure if you had the ability to read the room you will see that almost nobody agrees with you. And to be honest I don’t think they give a fuck what you think either, especially when you’re telling them how they should feel by plucking up some so-called “facts” from the internet!

It's not ok that the crime happens at all. Why would you think that's what I said??

Its not just the nationalist paramilitaries, its the loyalist ones saying it too. Extremists the both of them and very much in the minority, but the rest of us get caught in the middle. Violence is not the answer.

I agree too OP - well said.
I believe one day (when common sense takes over) we’ll look back on these years and say did we really let illegal men roam our country with no restrictions.

I think you are demonstrating an enormous amount of bigotry against most people in this country

Saying bad things against criminals isn't racist.

And if by 'his ilk' you mean criminals like him, that's not racist either.

But if you mean people who look like him or come from his country, that is racist.

I hope that clarifies things for you.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

As a white British person myself I would hate for skin colour, nationality or immigration status to be used as blanket descriptors of potential criminal behaviour, because the overwhelming majority of crime is committed by people who look like me, were born where I was born, and who hold the same passport as I do.

Well said.

But the statistics aren’t reliable.
They lump together all migrants. So while some sections of that demographic will have virtually no crimes committed (highly qualified, highly educated, skilled workers from countries with similar cultures to the uk as well as female migrants), other sections may be wildly over represented (males who got here illegally from violent, misogynistic countries with poor education and no skills).

There are no statistics on crimes committed by males who have claimed asylum or been given refugee status.

You can’t compare a female doctor from Norway with a male illegal immigrant from Sudan and state that they have the same propensity for violent crime.

I too agree totally (and am an immigrant myself).
As far as undocumented arrivals, things seem to be improving re small boats. See here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days]]]]
although quite why the government isn’t shouting about it is beyond me.
Re men and boys with different values, I work in a school with a significant number of unaccompanied refugees, mainly male. They are generally well behaved, respectful and grateful for their education and the support given (despite the trauma most have experienced) however I notice amongst the second generation boys that there’s a real problem of misogyny and total lack of respect for female staff and students. This worries me a lot as it’s so blatant and the parents seem to display the same behaviours. Slightly off-topic…

Thank you. And I agree, the tide is turning. It’s so nice to see that others understand and are feeling the same. Further evidence that it’s not just our imagination or that it’s a few racist nazis!