Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

Yes it’s a massive business with many making a living from it. People will push hard against it ending.

I’d maybe take your own advice. Just a suggestion.

How did he pass the checks?

Umm no, that’s not what I said. You said no-one should be allowed in if we can’t guarantee they’re not going to commit crime. I’m just following your logic.

They pick the UK because it’s heavily marketed by traffickers. Know why? It’s one of the most expensive routes and they want more money. These people are being taken advantage of for their payment and traffickers will continue to target UK. We need to cut the traffickers cash off.

Totally agree. And it is the attitudes like the ones on this thread that enabled people to believe that violent behaviour like this is in any way acceptable.

I do believe that the risk of them only going to commit violent acts is too high to condone it.

I also think the risk of violence is too high for adult male asylum seekers to be permitted to come here.

I’m not tribal.

This is a very good point. Not nearly enough consideration has been paid to this.

Try again. I’m specifically differentiating between discussing immigration and asylum and using those discussions to generalise about particular groups. You don’t think such generalisations are racist. Fine. Just say that. It’s ok that you don’t know a word for it.

If you can't tell the difference between violence and racist violence I'm not sure anyone can help you.

There's been nothing (that I've read anyway yet so happy to be linked to correct) to suggest that Henry or the man attacked last night were specifically targeted due to their skin colour was there? Obviously the police response to Henry's attack was racially motivated and very problematic but as for the motivation for perpetrators themselves I don't think that's been made public yet, at least not in the case of last night. That might come out later to be the case I'm just saying I've not read anything clarifying that yet. And I think it's really important when we're discussing horrific incidents like these that we are dealing in fact rather than assumptions.

If that poster cannot see that people smugglers are now operating ‘services’ from Belgium as well as France then they have no right to tell other people to go to specsavers! The whole “asylum by boat” is a con!

Are you able to clarify exactly why you do not think it's racist to set fire to the houses of innocent people simply because they happen to share a similar skin colour to the perpetrator of a horrific crime? I mean, can you actually answer the question instead of trying to deflect away from it?

Surely this is the very definition of racism. People are angry, yes, but they are directing their anger towards innocent individuals who had nothing to do with the horrific attack in Belfast, and they are targeting those individuals because of their race. How is that not racist?

People don’t want to accept the violence of someone from a country which our own government tells us not to travel to. So racist 🤡

No.
We can’t let them in if we can’t guarantee they have no recorded previous criminal history.

Same as for teachers.

Same as for doctors.

You know, basic safeguarding policies.

It’s always the same with the left lot… nothing and I mean nothing they can say to argue their case on here will stand up while they are defending criminals against angry people…. Because racist!

Agree.

How many people have to die or be mutilated? The politicians are choosing these violent men who it's obvious are probably criminal if they've come illegally and ditched their papers over the people already here. It's a choice.

Who’s defended the attackers. The only violent thugs I see being defended are the ones setting fire to people’s homes. I’d have thought you’d want to distance yourself from them.

It’s not racist to state that many of the illegal immigrants that enter the country are male or do not follow the laws or have the same values as British nationals, or even the same as legal migrants. It’s simply stating facts

There’s a huge difference between legal and illegal migration. I know a lot of legal migrant families - I grew up with one girl whose family are Indian migrants (doctors - they raised a family of doctors), my daughter is best friends with a Romanian boy, we’ve got an African family next door. All lovely. All legal and professionally working. This isn’t an issue of race.

It’s been proven by various court cases - including a rape case of an illegal migrant near to my home town where the person stated that rape is normal ‘where they came from’.

Im scared for my kids. I’m scared as a grown adult female. There’s woodlands near our home I used to feel safe walking through with my dogs - now my DP has banned either myself or our children going there alone. Our small home town has now become a worry. There’s a huge influx of immigrants in our area - many that loiter in park areas where our teens generally hang out with friends too. Why are grown men hanging around here? I’ve had conversations with my 12 year old that I can genuinely say my mother didn’t need to have with me over 30 years ago.

If they completely stopped any financial support or turned them right back around when they arrive on boats then this would stop them - I’d be more than happy for my tax money to be spent funding large safe boats for their return back to France - after all they are deliberately failing in their attempt to stop them crossing to get rid of them as their problem

Of course we do, I'm not for free and open immigration either. But we currently only have two other countries in the world where people can make a claim for asylum in the UK before arriving here.

We are the ones not leaving people any alternative route in so we are enabling those traffickers by refusing to provide free, monitored and safe access routes.

Most people who come by trafficking will be seriously abused on the way or asked to provide additional money at a vulnerable stage. They are utterly exploited in the process to be handed a non sea worthy craft and make it here on a hope and a prayer. Many other countries that are sea facing practice illegal pushbacks which is a big part of the reason why the UK is targeted. I'll never condone that because we know those crafts are not fit for purpose and that would mean leaving people to drown.

So unless we overhaul our immigration system, create more appropriate pathways for genuine people to access asylum here then we are never going to tackle the traffickers. I'd have a much more lenient view of deportation etc if we had alternative routes in the first place. But as it stands we leave people no other option.

Yeah that’s a reasonable point and I’d agree. We need proper criminal record checks.

Legal migration requires all of this by the way - it’s an involved process with lots of requirements to hit and hoops to jump through. As it should be.

I’d only point out that even with a clean criminal check, you can never absolutely guarantee that person isn’t going to commit a crime.

Again nope. Haven’t ever defended an attacker. Unlike you, who seem remarkably comfortable with people burning down black migrants’ homes.