Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

Racist = innocent, good people should die for our vanity project these days.

Which means that actual racism probably goes unnoticed.

I think the people arguing that the protests are 'far right' and 'racist' are ignoring the fact that they wouldn't have happened if a Sudanese man hadn't tried to behead someone in the street and immigration policy wasn't totally fucked. It's not helping the many different people already here to cause this tension.

The protesting didn't come out of nowhere. You want to reduce racism? Don't let undocumented illegal single young men from countries that hate women into the country in vast numbers, who then go on and commit horrific crimes, paedophilia etc. There's literally something every day, and that's only the horrific crimes the national media picks up on, there's plenty not reported. It's quite simple. Because OF FUCKING COURSE it's going to make people angry and increase tensions.

You won’t be able to give enough places on those routes to meet demand.

• Our option is to say no more men ! We have a hugely disproportionate amount of men , we can take women and children only

We would of course still get men after , brothers ,dads and so on but having their family with them may encourage better behavior..may

Is targeting the homes of black migrants to be burned down genuine racism?

“Most people who come by trafficking will be seriously abused on the way or asked to provide additional money at a vulnerable stage. They are utterly exploited in the process “

Awww poor them, I mean they could choose the nearest safest country if they are really fleeing asylum but no they don’t. So we should all feel sorry for them choosing to come here and being exploited! Listen to yourself!

”We are the ones not leaving people any alternative route in so we are enabling those traffickers by refusing to provide free, monitored and safe access routes.”

We?? How is this a UK problem to provide an “alternative route” for the rest of the world!

Is this the best you can scrape up from the bottom of that barrel?

You’re not making any sense and you’re just ranting. No one is defending criminals. No one is saying there aren’t legitimate concerns around unchecked illegal migration.

What we are saying - is that setting fire to people’s houses because of their skin colour, or saying entire groups of people are from shitholes and they’re all women hating bastards etc etc is…. Pick whatever word you want.

Yes it is. However as a pp has said above. Simply throwing the race card around at angry people is diluting its meaning!

You’re not making sense either… but anyway!

I don't know what the long term solution is.

I don't agree with rioting and violent protests - it just creates even more unrest and division.

The UK governments should pause all new applications for asylum until they've worked out how to process people effectively. If someone is genuine, and also suffering from trauma due to what they have fled from, then living isolated in a hotel for months on end, or being dumped in a completely unknown town with no effective integration and mental health support, is not a solution either.

Pause it all until a proper solution is found. Pause it until traffickers are starved of cash. Pause it until there is an effective and safe processing system so that women and children are prioritised. However long that takes.

Yes only people whose records can be checked properly. No one should suffer what happened because the checks are pretty much futile.

I wouldn’t bother pointing that out. People will assume you don’t think we need to bother with them.
I assume you’d not point that out when people request DBS checks for working with vulnerable people.

No expressing concerns isn’t racist. Is targeting the homes of black migrants to be burned down racist? It’s quite a simple question.

I suspect that the pp is unable to make any distinction between the perpetrator of the horrific attack in Belfast on Monday and others who happen to share the same skin colour.

In her very warped perception, people who share the same skin colour are somehow guilty by association, so when you suggest that the angry mob are wrong to set their homes on fire etc, she perceives that you are somehow defending the perpetrator of the original crime.

It is a failure of logic and of morality. In her mind, the anger is justified, and that's all that matters. She is sadly incapable of seeing how horribly misdirected that anger has been, and so she cannot condemn the targeting of completely innocent people for what it is.

There we go then. So it’s legitimate to say the people doing that are racist. Glad we’ve cleared that up.

I would allow women who can’t verify their criminal record (with regular check ins and follow ups to supervise) just because female asylum seekers commiting violent crimes is so vanishingly rare and they are vulnerable and are in need of our help.

No we haven’t! We haven’t cleared up your generalisations about everyone on this thread who is angry being racist! But nice try!

No - it wouldn’t. Well it wouldn’t have last night. And it wouldn’t because far right thugs (and worse in NI) might not have found an ‘excuse’ to incite and carry out ‘protesting’. They don’t care about the actual incident - they only care they have been called to cause trouble - abhorrently.

I went on a local counter protest - didn’t hear anything about the poor victim - I doubt they knew why they’d been called ‘to tinnies and aggression’ but they rocked up and provided that - the main thing they shouted was ‘pedo’ and talked of saving women and children - they hadn’t grasped why they were supposed to be protesting even.

There’s always something though for the people inciting these protests - it didn’t have to be this awful incident, it was nearly irrelevant in fact - which is just awful really.

True

Rioting is not the answer as it just means young men get a criminal record that will dog them for life.

A better response would be something like Pegida in Germany, mass peaceful protests with lots of middle aged and some elderly people as well as the young. That happened after a spate of terrorist attacks.

Both sides of the community came together in a peaceful rally in Natalie's honor not long after her murder. People were outraged at this disgusting heinous act and rightly so, and both sides of the community came together to support Natalie's family throughout a difficult and harrowing trial.

What happened in Belfast was not the same, and is a different type of terrifying, and there were missed opportunities to prevent it, which there wasnt with Natalie's murder. Both senseless and violent and abhorrent, but not the same.

I do not remotely agree with the riots, but its also not a fair statement to say the community here did not care about Natalie's murder because that simply was not true.

Oh don’t be surprised. Just read the thread. Specifically

Lavender14 ·Today 07:36
I know because it was released in the news which I've been following.
"so violence now = racism! What a stupid argument!" What would you call burning only black families out of their homes? What would you call groups stopping cars to check the ethnicity of the drivers? Again been following it closely being from an affected community in ni. It was not just wanton violence it was specifically targeted at migrants particularly black migrants.
You can see why that's racist can't you?

Flyingintotheunknown · Today 07:37
Nope! Nothing racist so stop telling me what I can see!