Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

Not really, I’d visit should things settle down and become peaceful again but I don’t cope well in very hot climates.

So you’re fine with child brides, gay people facing the death penalty, Qawama.

You don’t these things are backwards?

Those things do make the country awful though? At least at this point in time. I've read about some of the things going on, absolutely horrific. I can't imagine how scary it must have been for his family. Like I said, I don't blame them for leaving, but its an undeniable fact that the perpetrators of rape, murder and war crimes are also leaving and bringing similar atrocities elsewhere. There needs to be a better system than a free for all

Are you for real? Comments on this thread have had to be deleted because they were absolutely openly racist. People suggesting that anyone coming from certain countries must be more misogynistic and violent just simply because of where they're from. Quite literally anyone who's suggesting that the violence and rioting tonight is in any way justified. That's all racist. The man from Sudan was in NI legally through proper channels. So if people are saying they have no problem with legal migrants then that would have included him anyway. If you can't see the covert racism in that then I'm not sure what else to tell you.

How can you say it's not personal when black families were indiscrimimately burnt out of their homes last night children being rushed out of burning homes barefoot into the back of a riot wagon for their own protection, groups of masked men stopping people in cars outside one of the main hospitals in the country to check the ethnicity of the passengers... of course its bloody personal because all of it affects the ability of any other migrant to go about their day to day. Including the children of those migrants. It's just not personal to YOU.

What proportion of Northern Ireland do you think is Sudanese? What proportion of the native community do you think have tried to behead a man who by some accounts has learning difficulties and was doing nothing but trying to help the bastard out?

Perhaps the policeman understands the link between trauma/mental illness and violent crime very well and it contributes to why he doesn't want people from violent countries moving to his country.

You really believe it is the "most vulnerable" people in Sudan that manage to get themselves to the UK? What rubbish.

You’re willfully not hearing what I’m saying. I’m not saying we should accept everyone - clearly that isn’t practical. What I am saying is we shouldn’t be making sweeping generalisations and saying offensive things about entire groups of people based on what a single vile person has done. I can guarantee there is going to be enormous outrage in the Sudanese communities about this also.

If you want to go and learn something about Sudan and its people and still draw that conclusion then fine, it’s your opinion. Otherwise it’s just pure hatred and ignorance.

By the way, there’s no ‘if’. It’s not widely reported on but you can easily find the facts- just look at the sheer numbers of people dead, displaced, starving because of the conflict. It’s considered one of the biggest genocides in modern times.

No, the fall out is entire communities who are absolutely p**ed off with being told that uncontrolled immigration is good for us. How much proof does there need to be before the government acts to protect the people of UK?
Belfast has spoke loud, they are not prepared to accept such heinous crimes on their streets, by people who have no rights being there in the first place.

I don't think any kind of judgement on any community should be inferred by the actions of one person.

Could you cite your evidence to back up where any asylum seeker came here with the SOLE purpose of commiting violence?

Because yes, a few asylum seekers can turn out to be violent but I'm just curious as to why you'd think that's their "sole purpose" of being in this country?

Because if you've no actual evidence to back up that claim then it's a sweeping statement applied without base to a minority group... which is in fact racist.

1. It's 'spoken', not 'spoke'
2. 'Belfast' hasn't spoken. A few hundred rioters rioted. 99.99% of the population did not, and neither you nor I can understand anything about what they think about how best to respond to the stabbing.

I believe its the most vulnerable who go through the asylum system and are granted asylum. And those are the only ones we need to worry about as they're the ones on our doorstep.

You've missed my point.

“Racist” has stopped having any impact due to it being overused on things that clearly aren’t racist.
Keep saying it.

Yes, I’d completely agree with this. I think people are misunderstanding me and thinking I’m pro uncontrolled immigration and we should just let everyone in. That’s completely impractical. We also do need a better system to screen people that are here to commit atrocities and need to be tougher on deporting people who are committing crimes here.

However, a country isn’t its people especially when you live in a dictatorship. I wouldn’t want someone to look at Farage, say, and imagine that all British people are like him.

Did that make you feel really good about yourself?
Really superior?

”What I am saying is we shouldn’t be making sweeping generalisations and saying offensive things about entire groups of people based on what a single vile person has done. I can guarantee there is going to be enormous outrage in the Sudanese communities about this also.”

I agree with this and it is outrageous that innocent people are now living in fear because they happen to be the same colour or race as the brutal attacker in Belfast. Violent protest is never the answer - it’s always innocent people who suffer.

However I do think it is also wrong to lump everyone who has concerns about immigration together as though they are all far right and racist yobs.

It is valid to have concerns about the numbers of men who are coming to our country from violent war torn countries. We know nothing about their history- whether they are violent criminals etc . Many of the countries they come from have very different attitudes towards the treatment of women and girls . It’s valid to have these concerns.

Did it make you feel better bleating all that?

“Quite literally anyone who's suggesting that the violence and rioting tonight is in any way justified. That's all racist.”
Oh right so violence now = racism!
What a stupid argument!

The Sudanese man was here through the proper legal channels? Please inform us of how you know alllll about his migration status then!

The “most vulnerable” are unlikely to be healthy young men …

Because people like him are barely human.

So how do you suggest we could identify that this Sudanese national would carry out this attack? How should we have identified the Sudanese national that stabbed Rhiannon Whyte to death? If it's not possible to identify which people are at risk of stabbing someone to death in a frenzied attack (or attempting to) then no - they should not be allowed to come.

No, you're not getting my point. This is not about a failure of integration at all. It is simply about a failure of morals.

Digwa's behaviour would have been as unacceptable in the Punjab as it was in Britain. It has nothing to do with integration.

Some white British families fail to impart basic moral values to their children. If those children go on to commit horrific crimes as adults, we do not assume that the crimes are somehow connected to their ethnicity, or say that they must have failed to integrate into British society, so why do we have to frame it as such just because the perpetrator happens to come from an ethnic minority background?

A failure to integrate might have been relevant if this case had been about a clash of cultural values, but it was not. It was about the individual perpetrator and his family behaving in ways that would be perceived as morally repugnant in both Britain and in the society from which the family had originated before they migrated to Britain.

The perpetrator wasn’t vulnerable. The person he was straddling while he attacked with a knife was.

How can you only let people in who won’t do that? Why should anyone be subject to that crime as a kind of proxy vetting system.

I would say a lot of people in Belfast and beyond are pretty fucking embarrassed and depressed by what happened last night and wish that Belfast would speak a bit quieter. Me included.

Anyone who turned up to a "protest" where people were openly encouraged to "wear black and masks and come prepared to be arrested", where "all business's were told to close at 5.30 with no excuses or else " wasn't there in peace. Let's be really honest about that they all went along fully informed that there was likely to be violence on the streets if people felt emboldened and they went supporting that otherwise they'd have steered clear. Every person who turned out last night contributed to the violence that happened, don't think for a second that they didn't.

Agreed

People on both sides of that divide have found anger about someone from Sudan being allowed into your country and attempting to behead a man and gouge his eyes out haven't they?