Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

Do you know the perpetrator?

I don't and haven't seen any information released about his mental state. So could you cite your source that makes you think he wasn't vulnerable?

I mean I'd argue that anyone who is an asylum seeker is vulnerable in that capacity but right now we don't actually know if this was an act of extremism or a psychotic break or a ptsd induced psychosis.

Perhaps he was just simply depraved or perhaps he'd been exposed to extremism. But without any facts released on that you're making assumptions too early doors.

It’s interesting how appalled you are by people wanting adult male asylum seekers to no longer be allowed access to the uk because you believe there are good ones among them; believing the best of their motivations… but everyone single person who was angry and protesting last night went with the motivation to be involved in violence.

I agree - and sorry if you thought that was what I was doing. Immigration is indeed a very valid concern for everyone. I’m only getting mad at the comments about Sudanese people being XYZ offensive thing - or any other race/nationality for that matter.

Rarely is there discussion. It's all knee jerk reactions and pitchfork waving.

How has his mental state passed all the “rigorous safety checks” for him to get refugee status?

And Reform are making massive gains in the polls. People have had enough.

BTW, I’m sure if anyone looks back at your posts, they’d eventually find a spelling mistake or grammatical error. Not sure why you felt the need to correct the other poster 🙄

I really wish I'd not seen it. Utterly terrifying.

Nope. There was a very specific distinction made between talking about the asylum system and immigration, and using those discussions as an opportunity to make sweeping generalisations about people on the basis of where they are from or what their immigration status is. It’s the latter that’s being criticised. You don’t like the word racism to describe the latter, but don’t seem able to articulate what it would be ok to call it.

You could say that about anyone then, surely? So absolutely no one should be allowed to enter the U.K.? Even as tourists? Because we can’t guarantee they aren’t going to attack someone or commit a crime.

Ahhh the old “People commit crimes anyway so why bother trying to stop them” trope

I know because it was released in the news which I've been following.

"so violence now = racism! What a stupid argument!" What would you call burning only black families out of their homes? What would you call groups stopping cars to check the ethnicity of the drivers? Again been following it closely being from an affected community in ni. It was not just wanton violence it was specifically targeted at migrants particularly black migrants.

You can see why that's racist can't you?

Same. Keep people out unless/until
they've proved their values align with those of decent people and that their presence in the country would be of value.

“There was a very specific distinction made between talking about the asylum system and immigration, and using those discussions as an opportunity to make sweeping generalisations about people on the basis of where they are from or what their immigration status is. It’s the latter that’s being criticised.”

Again, making sweeping generalisations about everyone being racist makes absolutely anything you say on the subject of ‘sweeping generalisations’ invalid!
Cant take anything you say seriously with hypocrisy like that!

Nope! Nothing racist so stop telling me what I can see!

Where is the sweeping generalisation about “everyone being racist”?

If targeting black migrants to be burned out of their homes isn’t racist, what exactly does meet the bar of racism in your world?

I don't just believe there are good ones among them I know many personally so I know there to be from direct personal experience.

If someone said to me, Mon and do xyz but you'll need to wear dark clothes, a mask and prepare to be arrested and ask businesses will need to shut or else I'd say I'd be staying home thanks because that sounds pretty fucking illegal and like you're going to hurt person or property.

People went out fully informed on what was going to happen last night and they emboldened rioters and those who took part in targeted violence against migrant families in the process. And they did that knowingly. You'd need to be pretty naieve in this country to have expected that to be peaceful with the flyers and texts that were widespread. So I'm sorry but there is accountability due there.

Everywhere on this thread. But of course here comes the denial and gaslighting from you!
You have no argument to put across other than accusing people of generalising when you yourself, along with many others are generalising people as racists for being angry. So carry on spewing your ilk, it means naff all!

But poor Henry Nowak and the guy in Belfast weren’t racist attacks then! But people like you run to these threads to defend them when people get angry. Disgusting!

Exactly. Same as the argument for doing away with single sex spaces despite the fact that most men don’t commit crime (but of the crime that IS committed, the majority is by men hence why they are separated in the first place). Safeguarding 101.

Some asylum seekers are far from vulnerable. You are being naive.

I'm not telling you what you can see but I'm going to tell you a trip to specsavers might be in order...

This. Immigration is a source of business now. This is the real issue. Lawyers specialising in immigration, immigration “specialists”, big businesses owning asylum seeker accommodation, whole sections of councils dedicated to enabling these people to claim what they are “entitled” to, charities with CEO’s on big packages, - it’s now a whole section of our economy and a valuable skim of taxpayer money for those involved. It’s not about pulling up the drawbridge - why should someone who has been a migrant have to be in favour of seemingly uncontrolled migration because they benefited from being allowed to come, - that makes no sense - each case should be judged on its merits having regard to the whole picture at the relevant time. economically some serious questions need answering.

Oh the irony in that comment 😂