Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

Jesus Christ. Tell us you know nothing about history without telling us you know nothing about history….

Oh I’m sorry “eyes stabbed out and an attempted beheading”

Is that better? I wouldn’t want to exaggerate the crime.

The Church of England were not just wrong- they were being ridiculous. How could reparations possibly work?
Will the British working class receive reparations for the way they were exploited during the Industrial Revolution? Will the North African states that were heavily involved in the slave trade offer reparations?
What about those who were victims of British oppression but were also oppressors in their turn ( eg Irish Slave owners in America)

Because two people speaking a different language in public Isn't a indicator of how well they have assimilated to English culture same as with English people in Spain or Dubai speaking English. My friend is Brazilian and speaks to her mother and sister in Brazilian in London but they all speak perfect English and her and her sister both have Degrees from English universities. She also speak Italian to her children so people would say her Children aren't English or assimilating even though her children were born here and English is there first language

Because two people speaking a different language in public Isn't a indicator of how well they have assimilated to English culture same as with English people in Spain or Dubai speaking English. My friend is Brazilian and speaks to her mother and sister in portuguse in London but they all speak perfect English and her and her sister both have Degrees from English universities. She also speak Italian to her children so people would say her Children aren't English or assimilating even though her children were born here and English is there first language

Probably because we find the idea of "British values" laughable and infantile ...we are currently abandoning trial by jury, have an electoral system where the majority of people's votes are ignored. Hate on our streets. Values? Where?

So… something entirely different to what the PP was complaining about.

I’m glad you mentioned that. If a load of Brits move to a Spanish town, continue to speak English, don’t integrate, generally take over and affect the local culture, nobody has an issue with saying that’s wrong. When the local community complain about it, how many fellow Spanish people from other areas do you think leap to the defence of the Brits? Tell them it’s not as bad as they’re making out? Defend their right to change the culture and community, and continue to speak English? None, probably.

Now let’s look to England to the (working class) towns and cities who’ve had their local culture and communities absolutely destroyed. Changed beyond comprehension. To the people who feel like strangers in their own hometowns. Why is it that they’re accused of racism, bigotry and ignorance when all they ever wanted was to preserve their culture and their communities? The answer is usually classism btw.
Because so many middle and upper class people don’t see the issues in their own communities and it doesn’t affect them ,they just don’t care…It’s simply an opportunity to show off how “tolerant” and “progressive” they are. I mean, it’s only poor people after all. Do the commoners even know what culture is? Amirite? It’s just so easy for you to call Brits thick and ignorant, much more difficult to actually have empathy and consider how things might impact people who aren’t you.

Looking forward to 26 pages about this killing-the white young teens kicked him to death.
BBC News - Police told of racist attack weeks before Bhim Kohli killed - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxvz9p6635o?app-referrer=deep-link
And don't forget that at least 25%
of those lovely 'champions of English chivalry'arrested, in their tatty armour at these antimigrant demos, have police records of domestic abuse.

No exactly the same. Do you speak the local language when you go on holiday?

Seriously that's your reply?

Don't you remember sectarianism in the 70s and 80s and the horrific killings then? Because I do. That was fear and intimidation. Knocking on doors to tell the residents to get out rf they would be firebombed happened then as well simply because of their religion.

Now the thugs have added colour as well as the religion.

Again, not what pp was complaining about.

People moving to live in another country should have to speak the language. If a country stipulated that as part of their immigration policy then fair enough.

I was thinking the same when I saw the sweeping comment condemning all modern day Brits to be punished for the sins of their distant ancestors. You don't half get some daft sods on this site.

A great number of good decent people don’t think British values are “infantile”or “laughable “

Henry Novak’s father’s words after the court case represented the decency, restraint and fairness that is a characteristic of decent British people ( whatever their families origin)

Absolute racism of low expectations right there.

No threads about the 14 year old girl who stabbed three people in a school today either.

Our Governments have been so misguided and ineffectual that it is easy to lose hope but ICE have deported 400,000 people in America so it is possible where the will exists.

Because he presumably was born here and lived here? Can’t you see the difference? Of course there are evil people who do evil things every day - but what we’re saying is that the Stephen McCullough’s we can’t do antything about other than let the justice system take care of things. Asylum seekers and criminals from other countries we can do something about; by not letting them come here, or at least vetting them. I refuse to believe that those from other countries who are raping and killing people in the UK have been adequately vetted, because I’m pretty sure they have done similar in the place they’ve ‘escaped’ from.

But, in general, the Sikh community have integrated very well so that doesn't really add up. People from countries all over the world, all races, all religions have immigrated and integrated well in the UK.
But the desire to integrate must be there.
In the Digwa case, it wasn't. I don't think it's as simple as saying they had it harder because they were brown.
Not only that, they were well able to manipulate the system to accommodate this,as seen in the 999 call the brother made.

This case really wasn't about the integration of migrant families into British society.

You can argue that Digwa wasn't "integrated" into British society, despite having been born here, but he clearly wasn't "integrated" into the British Sikh community either. He did not accept or abide by their values or morals in the slightest. Indeed, he was banned from attending his local gurdwara long before the attack on Henry Nowak. Essentially, he wasn't able to integrate into any community.

This story is not one of a community that has failed to integrate. It is the story of a family that failed to teach the basic moral values that are common to British society and the Sikh community.

Exactly. Immigration is only becoming talked about more now because it's starting to affect the middle class too, especially now their kids can' barely afford a room in a house share let alone their own homes. I wonder why that is, it's almost as if the demand for housing has skyrocketed despite the birth rate dropping, truly a mystery.

Sorted then if you use a third country that you have an agreement with -Rwanda.

What is the connection of this man to the East?

A police who agrees with masked men setting fire to people’s homes? Good luck rebuilding your country with people like that.

Now let’s look to England to the (working class) towns and cities who’ve had their local culture and communities absolutely destroyed.

London, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Belfast, Glasgow, Newcastle, Leeds, Sheffield and Birmingham aren't working class?

@FunkyDiamondTime