Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

xenophobic maybe, if you’re looking for accuracy, although, I think it’s silence you’re actually in the pursuit of and “racist” tends to do that job better.

The sad thing is it's not just anyone associated with the attacker it's anyone who happens to look like him or who happens to not be local. And that's the major issue with all of this.

It's totally fair for people to have concerns about immigration and to feel that they're under pressure with current issues with housing and cost of living exacerbating things, and it's obviously totally reasonable to be disturbed by the horrific attack that took place. But let's not pretend that in Northern Ireland very recently immigrant families were indiscrimimately being put out of their homes. In one instance a house was set alight by people who knew a family were inside and people cheering on for that family to be burnt to death. They didn't give a crap that they weren't anything to do with the trigger issue or from a different migrant community. They were migrants and that was enough. Lots of legal, working migrants who pay into our economy, who pay into our NHS were under serious attack. Tonight there's reports that masked men have been working their way round homes and breaking in to "get the foreigners out".

I don't see any difference in the morality of burning an innocent family alive or beating them out of their homes than trying to behead someone in the street. So for me violence is violence and its unacceptable whoever does it. But I'm so glad that since I have the privilege of being white, people don't assume I'm just the same as the white people who were happy to burn a family to death in their home.

By all means push for a more efficient home office process that promotes integration and proper monitoring, push for the government to undo the damage that brexit caused to the immigration system. But don't blame and persecute thousands of people who are here legally whether working or via asylum for the depraved actions of an individual.

I think there's a very short sighted world view when people call for an end to the right to seek asylum and when they're so happy to cut that option off for others. But by the grace of God we're not currently in a position to need to use our right to seek asylum and sanctuary elsewhere but people in NI have a long history of unofficially seeking asylum elsewhere whether through famine or war and with changes to global climate etc it's highly likely that in years to come we will be in a very different position. Just because you don't need to use it now doesn't mean you won't eventually.

The other bit a lot of people seem to miss is that the majority of people here seeking asylum are leaving their country of origin because they are fleeing the anti female culture, or political regimes. They're not coming here to promote that, they're coming to get away from it. So yes, incidents like these are rare. The more polarised people become the harder it is for migrants to assimilate and then we blame them for it.

If you're only angry at migrant violence but are quieter about local violence then I'm sorry but you are absolutely part of the problem.

Let's see the stats for asylum seekers and people arrived in the last 5 years from Sudan, Afgsnistan and Syria please. Isolated from treating "foreign nationals" as a homogenous group (how racist).

How so? Churchills father was British and was of British heritage. Brunel's mother was British and was of British heritage. The Royal Family have been British from at least the early 1800s

Not quite sure what you're asking, but my point is that there is no circumstance in which someone shouting 'get the foreigners out' is acceptable. It is obviously racist. If it's some misguided response to a crime committed by a foreigner it still doesn't stop being obviously racist.
Someone shouting 'Get that one criminal foreigner out' is not racist.

But what does this have to do with a knife attack, attempted beheading really, on the streets of Belfast?
Just to let you know, it rained this morning here.

There’s no circumstance where someone should have their eyes stabbed and head sawed at.

Politicians will have to work out what to change.

The Royal Family have been here longer than three generations. Many have always pointed out that they don’t come from here though, along with most of our elites. I think the class system here really got going with the conqueror in 1066, and sexism certainly did. The Churchill family had mixed heritage I believe but some links here go back a long time. For what it’s worth.

I had no way of knowing the colour of your skin, whoever you are, over the internet, but you knew that. Nor would I care. I’m interested in behaviour, and particularly the behaviour of men in many cultures, and the fact that humans can choose different behaviour and different cultures. This country belongs to those of us already here, it is already overpopulated, and we have the right to determine its culture and what we feel is appropriate behaviour here.

Having home-grown perpetrators is not a good rationale for letting other perpetrators in from other places.

I read somewhere recently that the psychologist Jordan Peterson has a theory about the sort of women who are STILL voting for the parties which want to continue letting all these hordes of unvetted "refugees" (ha!) in: He thinks that underneath their virtue-signalling feminism and 'right-on-ness', they secretly desire to be dominated by men (in a sort of Amy Winehouse 'Stronger Than Me' sense). And seeing as Western men in general are becoming sort of emasculated (exactly as Winehouse moans about in those lyrics) they (left-voting women) are subconsciously welcoming these new arrival men, who are unburdened by this culture. It sounds completely batty at first, but I don't know.... there has to be some explanation!

I don't want people to be silent. I just want them to be wise.

Whilst 'foreign' isn't a race and would hint at xenophobia rather than racism, I would prefer to be a white foreigner walking past these fellas in Belfast tonight than a Black Briton. Wouldn't you?

Honestly what a load of rubbish.

Are you seriously arguing that there is some equivalency between white British people committing - in terms of pure numbers - the majority of overall crime in the UK (because they are majority of the population) and the massively inflated per capita rates of crime amongst some ethnic origin groups? Do you have even a basic understanding of statistics?

You try to frame worries about immigration, integration, and specific crime patterns as “misinformation/prejudice” blithely asserting no one group is disproportionately involved. That’s simply not an accurate reflection of the data.

You then dismiss people’s alarm at rapid demographic change in the face of horrific visible failures as though they should not believe the evidence of their own eyes.

Pattern recognition is a fundamental evolutionary trait. Public policy and policing should be based upon that and done without fear or favour. There needs to be accurate recording of crimes, truthful reporting of data, and an honest accounting of what that means.

The state has an obligation to protect its citizens - it’s the very basis of the social contract. To do this it needs to minimise the risks from the subsets that present the biggest risk.
In some cases through public policy and targeted assistance. In others through strictly enforced deportation and far, far tighter immigration controls. Integration needs to be at the basis of immigration.

Dismissing peoples rational fear as ‘demonisation’ is simply dishonest. It does not help victims. It will not prevent more.

Just to reiterate, I really don’t care. I think a lot of people on this thread don’t care.

We owe them nothing. We’re seeing far too many barbaric acts and standard of living dropping to facilitate them. We’re seeing far too much misogyny thriving and told to ignore barbaric daylight acts that id akin to terroism even if the authorities don’t.

Off they go. I don’t care. Even if one of them is genuine it’s not worth the risk.

Because apparently our ancestors from hundreds of years ago were all immigrants so they can’t possibly be British! That’s the latest argument from one poster to excuse the attempted beheading of someone in NI last night! Go figure….

How many Muslim countries would you choose to live in? How many are safe for women and gay people?

We don't have actual numbers, (statistical) facts because the Government refuse to collect them. Why do you think that is?

You are right on both counts. Both the violent act and the racist response are wrong. And yes, politicians are responsible for policy to make things better. Let's hope we don't end up with reactionary ones.

agreed, in fact I think as we have plenty of our own bams we don’t need more

No one is arguing white British men don’t also do some of these horrific things, but why are we importing more men from other cultures to do the same?!? Stop with the whataboutism and look at the real issues

I was having a good laugh at their expense to be fair. The poster using the excuse our ancestors from hundreds of years ago were all immigrants so we should just accept an endless supply of them coming here on boats in the present day and allow them to commit atrocities on our streets!