Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

My job makes me interested in this topic but doesn't inform my opinion. My opinion is formed by statistics and proper evidence.

Such studies and evidence show systemic bias. It also shows that there absolutely is two tier policing in this country, but not in the direction Farage et al suggest.

It’s easy to find online.

@Blightfittinggiven someone will be the victim when someone turns up who is ready to commit a crime is it ok if it’s someone else? Someone you don’t know.

Well, my dad came from a war torn country. I acknowledge, however, that he was still under the authority of his own officers and that they were under the authority of the British Army.

Dad was kept in Displaced Persons' camps for between 2 and 3 years and put to work on Continental Europe. His behaviour was monitored and he was eventually conveyed to the UK in a Royal Navy ship.

His behavour continued to be monitored. He was housed in barracks for a period of time and trained to work as a coalminer.

After he'd worked for a while, he was expected to find and pay for his own accommodation - most of the men in the barracks/Mineworkers' Hostel initially lodged with locals. For more than 20 yrs, he had to report to the local police station once a week and a check was kept on his address, whereabouts and relationships.

I know because, after Dad died, I found his Alien Card which he had to present to the local police station into the '60s.

Honey, less and less people are giving credence to your peer reviewed evidence-a bunch of badly educated wet cabbages full of self loathing agreeing with themselves.

More and more people simply do not care and prefer to rely on their own eyes and ears. I know, hard to take on board isn't it- but take it on board you will eventually have to do,

Conflating one attack with all immigrants/asylum seekers is ridiculous.

Google it? It’s free information on the govt website. 36k currently this year, 41k last year. 96% + are male. There are multiple gov web pages

Risk wise, it increases risk to women based on the countries these men come from. Fingers in ears if you like but I wouldn’t feel safe as a woman visiting the counties these men come from because well, it’s the men like them making the rules over there.

Have to say Weary, I find your posts so interesting.

Can I ask again how you trust the statistics and evidence, when we know that these numbers have been fudged before to suit an agenda?

I didnt know until just googling it that we dont record crimes by nationality

But someone made a point above about nationality anyway. What is English or British?

Someone who successfully sought asylum and is given many years later UK citizenship is a UK national, so any crime committed which might, might, be born out of their cultural background and beliefs, would be recorded as a crime committed by a UK national

Perhaps someone who came here with unpleasant/anti social/anti UK values/habits/beliefs, gets UK nationality and their children thereafter are UK/English/British nationals. If those offspring commit crimes born out of the cultural heritage and beliefs of the family (blood feuds/rape etc) then it is a UK born crime. But is it?

Better than stabbing us.

How will you ensure you only let people who won’t commit horrific crimes in?

Apart from its every day now so it’s not just one attack it’s many. And a large amount of them seem to be being committed by ‘asylum seekers’ oops sorry, I mean piss takers. The denial by you, is astounding! One attack? Really? Only one? Nah I don’t think so.

In my part of Fife, it's teenage boys in balaclavas who are using off-road motor bikes.

In a nearby village the other week, a 17 yr old knocked down a 94 yr old woman. The teenager tried to make good his escape, but was restrained by members of the public. This happened in broad daylight.

My father also fought on the side of the British. ETA I worked as a secondary school teacher for 40+ years.

Of course not.

@WearyAuldWumman its hard to tell with balaclavas but they’re clearly English young people on the bikes having heard them shout at people.
I worry that the public has so little respect for the police and they are underfunded and understaffed. If everyone really did want to rise up against them it would be awful. At this point I’d be prepared to have police armed as necessary to deal with the antisocial behaviour we are seeing more and more of

I don't disagree.

But if people think that ignoring large scale studies and evidence in favour of anecdote and personal experience is a good thing, I would disagree with that.

They’re all awful, these bikes

But in Glasgow city centre it’s the uber eats/drugs immigrants whizzing all over on them, terrifying: there are so many

That's fine. But I don't see why that means that we needs to house unknown, unlimited numbers of men from around the world now, decades on.

I’m not sure if this answers your question and I’m in Scotland but every single person born out with the UK and is suspected/charged of a crime their fingerprints are taken (or should be) and the Home Office have to be contacted regardless. Every time. 8 times out of 10 they will have some sort of settlement status or nationalised but the HO are informed. Even if they are of interest they rock up, give them bail papers never to be seen again.

Yes, those round here are clearly (white) Scottish.

I just watched the video.
This poor man. I hope he recovers well.
It is terrifying. Thanks to the bystandards that got a stick to beat the attacker and the other men that helped him to take this beast off the victim.
The moment when the attacker is sitting over this man's chest, just weirdly glaring at the camera and shouting while trying to decapitate this poor man.
I do not think we had a single week without a horrifying attack perpetrated by an immigrant that entered the country illegally for a good while now.
We know nothing about this people. They come in with no documentation and how are we going to figure out who they actually are.
It is making me feel very worried about my daughter starting work and getting late shifts.

From your linked article
Quote
"When they were found by French police in Calais on 3 December, they were returned to the UK."

Amazing how the French had no problem sending them back isn't it. But to send someone back to France we have to have a special deal and accept another person in return.

And now we have riots in Northern Ireland with men kicking down door shouting "get the foreigners out". I am more scared of racist white men than immigrants