Belfast attack

[Greenwitchart]

I can see that the previous thread on the topic is full so I am starting a new one to continue the discussion.

The points I wanted to say as someone who immigrated to the UK over 30 years ago:

• This is a horrific attack and everyone's thoughts should be with the victim and his loved one.

• However, I do think that we have an issue with some people getting into the country whether legally or illegally who simply don't have the same values as the majority of the population and are not able to follow its laws and customs.

• The asylum and immigration system needs a serious overall and to do more to stop men who are a potential danger to society because of their beliefs/culture/failure to integrate getting through the system and ending up committing violent acts. Some people destroy their documents and checks can only go so far when it is hard to verify claims and the chaotic countries they come from does not have reliable records that can be accessed . There are many peaceful and genuine asylum seekers who just want a safe place to live in peace but we seem to be getting in too many angry, violent men who abuse the system and that has to stop.

• I don't want to share the streets with people who have no respect for women and girls, are religious fanatics to the point of extremism or show hate towards gay people and bring violence in general.

• Having people from different cultures coming in is fine as long as they integrate well and take on the values of the country they live in. It does not work if they just live parallel lives and fail to follow the law of the land.

Yes, that's what I see where I live too. I also used to be a lefty. People I know have said: 'import the third world, become the third world' and looking around, I can see what they mean.

@Blightfitting

18% of the prison population are Muslim.

Despite making up only 7% of the general population.

How does that fact and statistic grab you?

Do you think there might be a link to where that religion originated and their attitudes to non-Muslims and women in general?

I didn't want to start a brand new thread and add to the already growing number. Is anyone else concerned that the protects in belfast might continue to the point of the so called troubles they had? Having a chat with a friend from Northern Ireland and she was wondering as the IRA is slowly showing signs of starting again even before this.

I have been telling myself this for years, it has got so much worse and people were still happy to turn a blind eye. Hopefully no more because if you think you live in a safe area, it's only a matter of time until you don't and if you think your children are safe, it's only a matter of time until they're not.
We are at a fork in the road now and waiting around like we have done for decades needs to no longer be an option.

This is the problem right here.

I genuinely don't think that most people are that far apart on what they want, immigration wise. I am pretty liberal, but obviously I want a properly functioning asylum system that balances compassion with the need for public safety. Obviously I don't want illegal immigration, criminals or religious psychopaths. Who on earth does?

We all want a system that works well and keeps undesirable people out. And we all know that the current one is imperfect.

I just think our differences are in what's workable and what's potentially just a knee jerk reaction based on fear not fact.

Respectfully.

If you can do that job, bring over multiple dependents, be put in social housing, access the NHS and get a UC top up then of course you would if your country isn’t as well off as the UK and then you get ILR.

Our young people don’t get the same nor can they compete with the wage suppression.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5901/cmselect/cmpubacc/819/report.html

Around 258,500 main applicants (primarily care workers and other health/care roles) and 389,600 dependants.

Multiple sources state that’s around 1.5 dependents per care workers - who is paying for that? Do we check these people are indeed working in the care industry after they arrive?

Young people need starter jobs so filling those roles with immigrants is why we have such a crap employment rate for our young. Care work is not a starter job and maybe if there was more ability to wage negotiate due to supply and demand we’d see the industry staffed with natives.

There is a system available and it's removal to a third country. It's not a case of sending thousands of people to Rwanda or landing them with all these violent men because when they know they will be removed, immediately and with no exceptions, they will cease to come.

Credentials should be checked. If there are no credentials to be checked then they cannot come in. The safety of the people already here is the priority.

Very sad for the person who can't enter-they are not our responsibility-but life is very sad and unless you can say you would give this unchecked person a bed in your house then you are in absolutely no position to disagree.

These immigrants aren’t working as care workers though

agreed!

No they are not, they are people with real concerns about unfettered immigration into the UK by people with a different value system, culture and no wish to integrate. They have every right to voice their concerns but it does not mean; that they are against all immigration. I am very tired of the performative nice brigade (who are often the most unkind and bigoted people of all ) attempting to shut down discussion

Yes, there's definitely been a shift in attitudes. The 'R' word has lost its power because its been used too often.

Im glad someone said it . I’ve been a immigrant in the uk so I’m by no means anti immigrant. This being said I studied I worked I don’t have a criminal record and above all I do not demand laws to be changed for me or around my religion or anything similar .
Some cultures are not compatible with western living and I think we should stop ignoring the elephant in the room just in fear of being called bigots or racists or similar when we are simply being honest and factual

But we don't have unfettered immigration?

Try paying an appropriate wage taking into account the local cost of living and training/ skills required: an appropriate wage to care for the people who had exactly that for themselves 40 years ago and happily watched everyone younger being screwed over in their own favour, quite possibly while speaking to the youngsters as if they were slaves or shit. Local youngsters might surprise you then.
”To be fair”.

No I don't think there is a link. I think the overrepresentation is due to factors such as the age profile of the Muslim population, systemic bias in the justice system which leads to higher sentences for minorities, and in-prison conversions. And it's not just me who thinks it. In fact I only think it because there is a significant body of academic evidence which shows it to be the case.

Really? Well just ask Google AI what Migration Watch says about per capita offences then…

this 100%

Removed to where? Which third country?

Yes we do.

Well, they’d be wrong. You’ve mentioned two Christian Countries that are taught to honour thy wife, and two Countries where homosexuality isn’t illegal, and were men aren’t encouraged to take young underage brides. I could go on…

I don’t like the leaders of both our Country and the USA, but the values are we share are nothing like that of the likes of Iraq, Sudan, Somalia… and you know it.

Major overhaul, well let’s apply some common sense, things like must be verified 100% that there’s no previous convictions, no history of mental health, a decent education, something to offer us as a nation.

I agree. I cannot believe the stupid narratives they pluck up and the knots they tie themselves in by trying to explain it.

Apologies. I meant the Migration Observatory, not the lobby group Migration Watch.