Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I hope the PC words
i dont think you have mate
come back to haunt him

Seriously? I cannot believe you can be so flippant given the situation!

No Sikh "needs" To carry a blade. No Scot "needs" to carry a blade. Nobody "needs" to carry a blade. (And for the record no Christian "needs" to eat fish on Fridays either).

It's important symbolically for them, OK, but they won't drop dead (no bad taste joke intended) if they don't carry a blade. If there is anything like the "need" to carry something in public, it's pepper spray for women in dangerous areas. Once this is allowed, maybe we can talk about men's "need" to carry blades.

(And yes, Sikhs are as a rule a blessing for a community. That's absolutely not the question)

Plastic or wooden blades would be a good compromise. Or a one inch pendant. Adapting to the times.

It's the whole culture of having different laws and standards to accommodate different 'special' groups which needs to change.

Permitting some people to carry weapons which the rest of the population is restricted from carrying is very obviously morally - as well as practically - wrong.

And it leads to people - the police, the judiciary, but also every day citizens - believing that it's OK - even right - to treat people differently based on their race, religion or other 'in-group' characteristics.

There needs to be one law which applies to everyone in the UK. One set of guidelines for the judiciary to use when sentencing, with no special considerations. One bar for the police to apply to everyone - no fear or favour.

Badenoch said it well: we need to be a multi-racial country, not a multicultural country.

I learned about the ‘5 Ks’ of being a Sikh (including the kirpan) at school so I don’t think it’s some massive secret.

of course you can disagree that it should be allowed but I don’t think anyone has been kept in the dark. You just didn’t know.

Exactly. You could even argue that if this murderer was a bit thick, which let's be honest he probably was, he took being allowed to carry weapons as permission to also use them. Can you really blame him? Thick people can't understand complex rules like 'carry it but don't use it', which to be fair to them is a bit pointless.

It's like saying 'white children can carry fireworks but not set them off'. Fucking stupid law..

I asked the same question yesterday, about why Killer and Bro didn't hoppit and someone answered me. I think there was some amount of commotion around by the time Henry had got over a fence and crashed down so I don't think they could get away quietly. Too many people were involved by then. I know brother phoned the police but I think Wiki says that a neighbour did, too.

No, this tragedy was waiting to happen when you take the long view of the institutional DEI US-style snake oil that’s been peddled for a decade.

’White man bad’ has been institutionalised on steroids since George Floyd died and we are reaping that today.

Those policemen had been brainwashed. They could only see Henry’s colour and the colour of his murderer. And concluded and acted accordingly.

The very definition of racist.

I rather imagine they might. I can't help wondering what he thought and said when he realised that Henry had died and there were indeed stab wounds. Someone on the earlier thread said that it wasn't dark, but it was, and the light was from the house and the car lights.

We should all be outraged about this young man’s death, as outraged as everyone is for Steven Lawrence.

Those police need to be held accountable, but also their leaders, the Home Secretary and the PM. It’s their policies post George Floyd killing, that led to this chain of events. Apparently Hampshire police have their anti-racism objectives all over their website, and part of police individual performance is measured on this. So, the police have apparently been trained and told to address the needs of minorities primarily in police situations.

It is now a 2-tier system and this benefits no one as we will just end up more divided.

We should all be outraged. I don’t condone the Southampton violence, but I’d march for this.

Things need to drastically change in this country NOW or we are going to get a Reform government, and to be honest, if they don’t change, and quickly, I will feel I’ve got no option but to vote for them.

In my experience I would say that only a very small fraction of Sikh men in the uk carry a Kirpan. Almost all of them will have a bangle but not a kirpan. Remember that many Sikh men don’t even wear a turban and have short hair. Even those with turbans, I would say very few carry a kirpan. As someone with links to that community I am in favour of banning the carrying of any bladed weapon. It’s just not necessary. In a modern society it is just an anachronism and no one should be given special treatment when it comes to carrying a dangerous weapon

I think this is a sane take. A lot of decisions need to be made as a result of this horrible case, and this is one that can be done.

Policing is a whole different problem. That needs more attention and fast. Or there will be more riots.

Thanks for posting-
Very powerful article.

All I can think of is Henry's parents now.

The cry of “racism” is the crux of the matter. The assailant could have been of any ethnic minority (or “global majority” apparently now) - the fact is he and his family thought that it was a surefire way of deflecting blame. And, sadly, it was.

The two-tier thing is becoming increasingly apparent, eg you can have say four wives (and bring them to UK and claim benefits for them and indeed pensions) if you come from a country where it is legal. Now, if Jim Smith a lorry driver from Droitwich is running four wives round thd country he will have the book thrown at him.

A judge ruled that an Afghan man could bring numerous people to the UK “because family does not necessarily mean just blood relations there”. Now again let’s see if Jim Smith can do the same with his Australian wife.

Presumably you think many past PMs and Home Secretaries are equally accountable? If there is some sort of institutionalised anti whiteness at Hampshire police, it didn’t start overnight two years ago.

I like Badenoch’s point about being multiracial, not multicultural. We could have avoided so much tragedy had we adopted this stance for the last 30 years.

Digwa’s claim of racism deflected blame for about 10 minutes. During which the police initially failed to understand the actual victim was fatally injured. So yes, the murderer and his family lied but the claim of racism didn’t stop him or them being charged and (in his and his mother’s case) convicted. His actions brought further scrutiny on the family and the father and brother are now charged with weapons offences. So ‘the cry of racism’ didn’t actually help anyone get away with anything, did it?

I have never agreed with her about anything; but I feel this a good point. Multiculturalism is subjective. People are perceived to get different standards of treatment by public authority.

If you have a majority white population who feel that their standards are lesser, you will have a lot more riots and trouble to come. The Labour Government need to fix this issue. They are not the best placed but they are what we have now. I would hope they see the real issue here and not retreat to an orthodoxy about multiculturalism which looks like it just died.

I'm totally shocked by the whole case
I had absolutely no idea one religious group was walking around carrying knives.
I thought the UK had a zero tolerance to knife crime .
Someone would say ,well there has been no issues so far ,and it's for their religion..true ,no issues so far ..
But now an innocent has lost their life .
So this needs to be looked at
You can't have one section of society carrying knives and zero tolerance for everyone else .that's madness.
And police training needs looking at ASAP
What on earth has gone wrong with police training,that they handcuff a dying man ,lead on the floor saying he can't breathe, because someone said he was racist.
Since when was a possible racist comment more important than someone dying on the floor .
I'm appalled they didn't help poor Henry..I can't imagine the pain and distress he was in

There is a horribly depressing article in the Telegraph about Hampshire Constabulary’s diversity/equity/anti-racism priorities. They seem to have exceeded any normal or logical policy, issuing a statement about George Floyd (wtf?) and indoctrinating young recruits with propaganda. This insidious creep into all our institutions is shameful.

I assume Sikhs who carry kirpans don’t take them on planes when they travel?

That is depressing and stupid from the police. Why is someone making a living from this irresponsible stuff?

Very unwise.
Policemen should be urged to use common sense. If a person says they can't breathe, investigate!

I didn't know that Scotsmen can carry knives too, but I grew up around Sikhs who carried kirpans. But very small, blunt ones which could not do any harm.

Kemi Badenhoch made some good points. No one should be treated differently. The police have been racist (think Stephen Lawrence) and on this occasion they treated a white person differently. Basically everyone should have the same rights and that is what the police should be taught.