Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I know! It is incredible what they were trying to do surely the top bosses must be sacked for this and all involved.

It is lies how can they get away with this stuff?

I do not trust the police. I have zero faith in them. The training and DEI policies need reversing sharpish!

It is evidence that within the police and other organizations enforcing the law that this will be regarded favourably. This needs to stop. If you put down guidelines you will motivate behaviour which people perceive as doing their careers a favour. You will find the organization drifts to what is getting attention from senior, more powerful people.

Policing is about ordinary people. Most victims of crime are not powerful. They need their police to work for them and to be seen to work for them. If this cack handed stuff continues there will be more riots to come.

There is something I just don’t understand, having also listened to the 999 call and having watched the body camera footage.

Why the lies? I accept that the brother who called the police did not realise what had happened, because he came late, but why did Vicrum lie? Surely he can’t have hoped that the police would not notice that Henry was stabbed?

Didn’t he think it would be better for himself if Henry’s life was saved?

It makes no sense at all.

It depends on his motivation. Which was possible racial hatred, given what he did. That went unexplored in the prosecution. But it is one admittedly very dark explanation for what he did from start to finish in this murder.

So you didn't notice the whole George Floyd and Black Lives Matter movement riots then?

It would be more accurate to state that there only tends to be riots when the police have failed in their duty rather than social services failing in their duty.

This is all about public services prioritising avoiding accusations of racism over actual doing their job. And that comes down to years of policies, training and indoctrination.

It’s either unbelievably stupid or else unbelievably cocky.

Or did he think all along he was right to stab someone to death?

Utter madness.

How can you blame the current prime minister for Southport or the Manchester bombing?

It appears he belonged to some particularly odd element of Sikhism that held carrying an additional knife was extra good in religious terms, which in the hands of anyone else would have been an offensive weapon, and his family seemed to be obsessed with weapons. This is a kind of disaster which did not need to happen. It needed a particular kind of latitude in the law and another in policing. It should change.

Two tier policing was formalised by this current PM in Feb 2025 with the police race action plan.

There are similarities for Southport headteacher, MA security guard, the Nottingham attack as said by Barnaby Webber’s mother - all have a fear of acting which lead to horrific events.

The current policing guidelines are wrong, but it’s more than that.

You specifically referenced Southport (July 29th 24) and the Manchester bombing (22nd May 2017). How is the current PM responsible for guidelines in place for either of events?

If you want to talk about the race action plan, ok. That was first published in May 2022.

Valdo Calocane murdered three people in August 2023.

How are you pinning responsibility for guidelines in place during all of these things on the person who became PM on July 4th 2024?

Agree it’s very widespread it’s not just the police, it’s in schools, health, education , councils the list goes on.

Its permeated everything the woke and DEI ideology and has to be reversed.

All of this has cost innocent people their lives. 😞

I recently saw a job ad for an anti hate crime officer with Leeds city council as apparently minorities are getting gip. It beggars belief projecting yet again one group. It cuts both ways….as they know they can and do play the race card !

To add insult to injury there were saying sponsorship available…so bring in someone from abroad when so many are looking for work here. I’ve had to pinch myself it’s utter madness.

The loonies are running the asylum! Not just police but in a lot of areas it’s quite terrifying.

I hadn’t read that. How awful, insult to injury. Where was it reported?

Well Starmer was head of the CPS previously and also has been a prominent politician for a long time. But the problem is this is being and has been (for a long time) driven by unelected official and apparatchiks who share his values .

Civil servants tried to prevent Kemi Badenoch speaking to Keira Bell when she was Minister because Keira's real life story doesn't fit their approved narrative and approved ideology (Kemi went ahead and did it anyway, i.e. did her job, all credit to her - she's like an adult in a room of toddlers).

I don't think this sort of undermining of democracy by unelected officials is rare at all. Look at the NHS - forcing Nurses to get undressed in front of Men due to ideology of the managers, which has nothing to do with healthcare, even though it's against workplace regulations AND the Equality Act 2010. I.e. against the law in MULTIPLE ways. And frankly hostile to nurses and their wellbeing and retention.

In this case (which is not an isolated one) they've lost the court case in Darlington and have been found to have harassed those nurses, but still are trying to punish the nurses. And no-one has lost their job or been disciplined for the outright bullying of these employees. The NHS uses taxpayers money to fund their defence of forcing female employees to strip in front of males, they face no consequences for wasting money in this way rather than spending it on healthcare. It's dystopian, frankly.

Well said, the Southport murderer in part was not stopped because those stating the obvious risk he posed were accused of racism. The grooming gangs were not stopped and are still ongoing. And who can blame individuals for stepping back - they're literally crucified professionally as soon as someone uses the 'r' word against them. look at the abuse and destruction of lives of those who raised the alarm on the grooming gangs.

Some of the victims of this inability to raise the alarm and for professionals to do their job when it comes to concerns about anyone from an ethnic minority background are the most vulnerable people from ethnic minority backgrounds (like Victoria Climbie, Sara Sharif and the Sikh girls raped by the grooming gangs) This situation doesn't benefit anyone except the criminals. And it harms those most vulnerable no matter their race.

Essentially it's a way to help criminals, as far as I can see. Create a situation of fear where professionals can't speak up and do their job in certain situations. It creates whacking great big safeguarding loopholes for certain people with criminal intent - of course there will be catastrophic failures.

The PM is responsible for the Feb 2025 wording on treating people differently.

He’s also unable to acknowledge the problem and said in the HoC two tier policing didn’t exist.

There’s more than that however, it’s been decades in the making. Jack Straw has commented on it so earlier Labour legislation and then continued to grow as picked up by institutions becoming systemic.

It’s going to take someone with courage to fix the problem, but that starts with recognising it exists. Which Starmer and Lammy have both denied.

David Lammy’s apparent front facing conduct on behalf of the government on this is odd. This is not his job. The person who should be out there doing this is the Home Secretary.

Unless of course David Lammy is actually responsible for driving the policy of these guidelines, in which case, I can see why he is so defensive. Arguably what they have achieved is more racial tension, not less.

I notice that you can’t answer the question, so you try to change the focus.

You referenced specific incidents and documents, and said the current PM is responsible for things that happened before he was PM. Are you now backing down from that? Or do you think the PMs during the Manchester bomb, the Nottingham murders and just preceding the Southport murders were responsible? It’s just that you only mentioned Labour and this PM and, during all those incidents, they weren’t in power. If the Race Action Plan was so faulty, why didn’t the Conservative Home Secretaries and PMs shut it down?

Many people in and formerly in policing don’t agree that two tier policing exists. The PM‘s view on that might not be the same as yours, but it doesn’t mean you are correct. I wonder if you you were concerned about disparities in policing when it was about homophobic hate crime, or the survivors of the Yorkshire Ripper, or repeated deaths of black men in custody. Just a hunch but I would imagine not.

There’s always a weekly representative from Cabinet doing the news on a Sunday. Today it’s Lammy’s turn. The Home Secretary made a statement on Tuesday.

I’m not changing focus. It’s what I think just expanded on it as you keep asking.

What we’re seeing is systemic and I agree with Jack Straw on how long it has been in the making. All the events mentioned below are symptoms of the problem.

It has taken Henry’s death and the glaringly bad ‘treat people differently’ wording for the public to see two tier in simple language. Many don’t think it’s ok and will want change.

The lead social worker in Victoria Climbie’s case was black. She has said that she was let down by inexperienced managers who also didn’t read medical reports properly and believed the child’s injuries were likely to be accidental. The Laming review made no findings in racism, those ideas were brought up later by commentators but not based on any specific evidence.

No review of Sara Sharif’s case have found social workers were fearful of accusations of racism either, that’s something the media have claimed but again no evidence raised through court proceedings.

Then can you return to your original claim - that the current PM is responsible for guidelines in place during Manchester arena, Nottingham and Southport incidents, and for the policing race action plan - and explain why you think that?

He clearly thought there was a way to get out of it and pulling the race abuse card was at the top of his resources.
He had a few minutes to reconsider and realise he was better off coming clean and getting an ambulance ASAP, but he did not take this option. A recorded conversation between his brother and him was translated to get a confesion. It did not come out of his lips directly to police. And Henry was already dead at this point.
I think it is clear Vikrum has some mental issues.
And I wish they had been spotted before this tragedy.

It’s two separate things. One the current PM is responsible for the Feb 2025 guidelines with ‘treat people differently’. He is also unable to talk about two tier policing and denies it exists which makes it almost impossible for him to fix it.

But that’s not the entire picture. I assume last Labour initiated legislation which has institutionalised behaviour that most can see today. The Southport headteacher, the MA security guard, the Nottingham MH assessors.

It’s so wide ranging and pervasive now it’s going to take someone strong and clear who can fix it. Ie not Starmer and likely not Labour.

Painting Henry as a racist is especially absurd as his sister is the mother of a mixed race child.

I’ve no idea what the Feb 25 guidance is. You mentioned the race action plan, which is a specific document that was published in May 2022.

Labour were last in power in 2010, so quite why you think they’re responsible for the 14 years of legislation between then and this government, I really don’t know. Pure ignorant prejudice I guess.