Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

That's absolutely heartbreaking.

Agree with much of this.

Totally agree. It's discrimination it's wrong. It's always been wrong.

**This "reverse racism...' .... now permeates not just across law and order but across employment, media, social media and Government attitudes.

You don't eliminate racism on one section of society by simply being racist against another section of society.

In stark opposition to what the official police guidelines says - policing and the law should be colour blind and everyone treated the same.

Worth noting that anyone else with a lawful reason for having a weapon would also see their sentence starting at 15 years. So it’s not just religious exemptions. Say a tradesperson was emptying their vehicle, got into an altercation with a passerby and used a tool grabbed from their bag with fatal results. Similarly if someone is stabbed in their own home with their own kitchen knife (whether the perpetrator also lives there or not) the starting point is 15 years.

It’s not about removing the religious exemption per se, it’s about changing the rather stupid idea that murder is worthy of a greater or lesser sentence depending on where the weapon came from (or indeed the use of a weapon at all) Lawful reason in the streets should prevent arrest, but once used the sentencing should be applied equally.

ETA This is an example of where the law truly and very explicitly has been treating people differently, and has meant men that kill
women at home often get lesser sentences than men who kill other men outside. But never seen a thread on here about it.

For example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-68139396

The only way to restore order is to ensure the law is applied equally to all.

There should be no exemptions for any religion or colour, or anything else. It's not hard.

The Magna Carta was written to represent the rule of law for all. Not the shit show governments have turned the law into today. Where for eg. we apparently need a court case to confirm that yes biological sex is real - or where certain religions are allowed by law to wear clothes that conceal their faces, or weapons, or are allowed to carry weapons legally where others are not.

What a ludicrous situation we've become desensitised too.

'contemptuous of British lives'

I am not challenging that. I am simply wondering how to define something.
What is 'a British life'?
Years ago I saw a man on TV saying to the camera 'I love England'. He was on the beach in northern France, hoping to come to England. I wondered what the words 'I love England' meant?

I don't want this post to start anyone having a row with someone else, but the words make me wonder.

Thankyou for your insights.

I can see that a tradesman carrying a tool in his van and then using it in a fatal altercation is different to him, for instance, carrying a knife to his ex-girlfriend's place of work and then stabbing her. (I assume in that second example his starting point would be 25 years?)

What i'm curious about is this grey area in the knives Digwa was actually carrying. Because it is documented that he was carrying his Kirpan (perfectly legal in this country, carried by many law -abiding Sikhs) but the knife he stabbed Henry with was NOT a Kirpan as has been stated by Sikh Federation UK, they have said it is not at all representative of the Sikh faith.

The only person saying it was a religious knife was Digwan himself. If it was not a Kirpan surely the only reason I can see for him carrying it is because he intended to kill someone with it, he was just looking for opportunity and so therefore the starting point should be 25 years.

This is what needs to be investigated.

He had survived 30 mins, and was able to talk etc.

Police arrived and he died with minutes of being dragged and cuffed.

They need another investigation into this urgently.
As far as I’m aware, the report did not mention how his injury was affected by being yanked cuffed and forced down 😔

It makes my head hurt, quite honestly. The hard left wingers are now falling over themselves to defend having different laws in the name of religion.

I’ve seen people on socials this week defending people in the UK belonging to certain religions being anti homosexuality - and many of the people defending these views are actually gay themselves. The people who were arrested and imprisoned pre-1967, when homosexuality was illegal largely due to Christian teachings, must be turning in their graves.

He is one of the two men arrested, and being held in remand. He has pled not guilty, so we’ll see what happens.

Police claimed he kicked them, but multiple angles of the incident were recorded, and no one has been able to see a kick so far….

Which is being reviewed by the attorney general to send to the court of appeal, as there was a question mark over the legitimacy of him carrying the larger knife, plus the possibility that he should lose the religious exemption because he unsheathed it. So that sentence could chance.

But let’s also be clear - the sentence is life. He can only apply for parole after 21 years, he won’t be relaxed unless he is granted parole. And I think we all know that he won’t be getting released so it may be a moot point.

When was the law applied equally to all?

The rich pay for the best defence, black people far more likely to be jailed and for longer, back in the day, being Irish would lead to being jailed, with evidence falsified.

Now i think no one shd be carrying a knife for religious reasons but carrying any bladed item is illegal to carry without good reason anyway but 100s get stabbed in the UK each year.

As for the Magna Carta, i'd have a look at the application of English over the last 1000 plus years to see that laws apply to some but not others and still carries on to this day.

But hundreds of murderers get released from prison every year after they have served their sentence; he didn't get a whole life order. He will serve 21 years and then the parole board will probably let him out.

So your justification for not applying the law equally to all citizens in 2026 regardless of their race, religion or income is that historically it wasn't applied equally and there were legal injustices?

The arrest rate for Black individuals is roughly 19 to 20 per 1,000 people, compared to 10 per 1,000 for White individuals and 9 per 1,000 for Asian individuals. Are you suggesting that white people are more likely to arrested than Asian people because of racism or might it be that Asians simply commit less crimes than white people?

That is not what they are taught in the new guidance for police officers since the George Floyd incident. The police were terrified that the UK would see cities burned to the ground in race riots as in the US, so they have imported intersectionality and Critical Race Theory from the US. They are taught to treat minorities with greater sensitivity and as "allies." So Henry was perceived from the off as the white supremacist aggressor and the lying family as the victims.

The Trump administration has chipped in their tuppence worth.
We do not need more political interference from point scoring politicians nor from a country where shootings and murders are a daily occurrence.

It's a British problem that has to be solved within the confines of the UK.
Mealy mouth lessons have been learned won't wash but attacking the police by rioting isn't the answer
Condolences to the Nowak family.

Perhaps read the post i was replying to first before jumping to a series of incorrect conclusions?

The pp was suggesting that under the Magna Carta we are all equal under the law and that until recently that was always the case.

We have had report after report stating the Met is racist, black athletes stopped for no reason, the Lawrence case... when i worked in London, our black technicians had to be given longer per fault call than white ones, to allow for them being stopped in their new company cars.

There is nothing "historical" about racism in the police force, hasn't a recent report said even maternity services are racist? with far worse outcomes for black women.

You nor i know why the Police acted the way they did, thats why there is an inquiry, yet you and plenty of others are stating as fact they acted the way they did due to PC gone mad.

I suggest it more due to utter incompetence.

Who are you to express what the family may or may not or how they do things because of your political views. Insufferable ego

We are all dual nationals, as when Brexit happened, we applied for dual nationality of mine and dh parents, EU countries of birth. We were all born here.

This is all making me wish we hadn’t actually, as I now worry if we and our DCs, as dual nationals could be deported to a country we have nationality of, but have never lived or worked or paid taxes in, makes me more than a bit concerned tbh.

Yep

I’m not sure what this has to do with the thread. But in any case I can’t ever see that happening, no party in the mainstream is advocating for deportations of dual national Brits unless they commit a very serious crime. It would have to take a radical political earthquake the scale of which we have never seen before for that to ever happen.

There's going to be an enhanced inquest now. Currently scheduled for September 2027 but people are trying to get it brought forward as the delay is so cruel to the family

I suggest that the police acted in the way they did because they were simply following their own internal policies.

I don't actually blame the police officers involved but I do blame years of policies and indoctrination which has made police officers prioritise against an accusation of racism rather than doing their job including trying to save the life of a 18 year old stab victim rather than hand cuffing him and kneeling on his back.

The family are being used by all politicians and agitators. There is a back entrance to Downing Street, this was a photo op for Starmer.