Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

That’s exactly my point - EVERYONE is applying their own experience and beliefs to their reading of it. You want to see this as evidence of anti-whiteness and nothing will persuade you otherwise.

^I do agree that this aspect should be looked into. But we shouldn’t kid ourselves that Henry Nowak would still be alive if his killer hadn’t been legally permitted to carry his weapon. He was a violent man who probably would have been carrying a knife whether legally or not.

He doesn’t appear to have any respect for the law after all. Neither do any in his family either, by the sounds of it.

Yes completely agree. Just awful.

Or even worse, that the police did not check him over properly, BECAUSE they believed he was a racist and could just stew for a while.

This is an absolutely devastating case and the footage is extremely distressing. The police were callous, complacent, and totally unprofessional. I had understood that Henry Nowak’s injuries were catastrophic and he couldn’t have been saved at that point, but if it’s true that police action exacerbated his injuries and contributed to his death, it’s even more heinous. In any event, the fact that he wasn’t comforted in his last moments is awful. The police officers could have held his hand and told him an ambulance was on its way. That at least may have given him some peace. He was dismissed and neglected.

I think DEI initiatives are mostly pernicious and I don’t like how events are frequently viewed through a racial lens. I’m not sure that race played a big role here. I also think in the George Floyd case there was no particular reason to focus on race. It is a terrible and shameful fact that people die in police custody sometimes and are treated brutally by police, regardless of their race. There were similar instances prior to George Floyd with white victims that obviously didn’t receive nearly as much press attention.

That doesnt change how terrible the situation was, but I don’t think the police in this case were necessarily biased against Henry Nowak because he was white and the purported victim was brown. I don’t know what usually happens in stabbing incidents, but I imagine perpetrators flee the scene and don’t contact the police. The fact that the mudererer’s brother called the police (I guess in an effort to try and control the narrative) meant that the officers had a pre-conceived notion of what had happened and who was the victim. I also think when there are conflicting reports, it can be easy to lend more weight to the person who seems calm and rational and can provide a coherent explanation rather than the one in distress. I also wonder if the fact that the perpetrator’s family were there and it seems like it happened close to their home made HN seem more like the aggressor. Having said all that, if you’re a police officer you need to treat everyone with a degree of suspicion and be open to the evidence in front of you. If someone is lying on the ground and telling you that they’ve been stabbed and can’t breathe, you need to treat that claim with urgency and care, even if you are highly sceptical. The consequences of getting it wrong are just too grave.

You utter sneering snob.

This is the Mail article with his grandmother by the way

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15872225/Grandmother-Henry-Nowak-killer-speaks-difficult-boy.html

A difficult boy. So they gave him weapons training 🙄. No daughters in the house either. Not surprised.

I've seen gatka demonstrations at Mela festivals. It's fairly obvious it's done to uh send a message. It is after all why so many got recruited into the British army.

The audacity of this woman. This is utterly disgraceful.

His mother did what any mother would have done? No, she didn’t.

He was a difficult boy, as is often the way when born in Britain…. Just wow.

And her comments about her concern that kirpans may now be banned. Well, they won’t, but they should absolutely NOT be allowed on our streets.

Really? I think if Henry Nowak had been black he'd absolutely have died, most people wouldnt give a shit, and Nigel Farage would be lambasting any protesters. Which is the usual response when a black man in police custody dies.

If anyone is in any doubt about two tier policing do yourself a favour and watch the video of police officers holding down a man whilst another repeatedly kicks him during the Southampton protests.

Compare that with the video of the Manchester Airport brothers beating up 3 officers and one officer stamping on him once.

It was all over the news, police brutality mobs demanding the release of the brothers and the male officer suspended. It’s obvious to anyone who cares to be open minded and objective.

If this is true, it muddies the verdict. Digwa would not be a murderer, just someone who attempted murder. The police might be guilty of manslaughter.

Attempted murder is treated the same as murder.

You’ve made yourself look really stupid.

51% of knife crime is committed with kitchen knives. They are a huge danger. They are so easily accessible which makes them an attractive choice to carry for people who want to carry a knife with the intention of using it. They are also often a “grab and use” option, if someone wants to go out and stab someone or indeed, in the home. Because they are accessible and perfectly designed for stabbing.

Knife crime campaigners for years have been trying to have kitchen knives altered, to actually have an affect on this. They want to phase out pointed tip kitchen knives and make it so you can only buy rounded or flat topped knives. Because knives like that cannot pierce flesh and clothing as effectively. It would make them less attractive as the go to easy access weapon for people who want to take knives out with them - 50% remember. Those people would have to make an effort to buy flick knives or daggers etc.

It would be a long process because you can’t gather up all the knives in kitchens right now, but it would be a phase out.

If you actually care about knife crime, you would care about kitchen knives, their design and their accessibility. Are you involved in any of that campaigning?

There is a brand which I have already posted on this thread, who have designed these safer knives. Do you own those, or encourage people to buy those when they set up a new home etc?

You’ve really made yourself look stupid with your reply that talking about kitchen knives is an example of debate taking a dive. It is a huge issue and one which actual knife crime campaigners know is very important and would actually make tangible change by making these knives less effective and less attractive for knife crime.

The knives are Viners Assure and if you feel so strongly about this issue, maybe you should get on board with that.

No. What absolute nonsense.

“My victim could have survived if not for medical mistakes so I’m not a murdered.” You ever seen that as a defence? A successful one?
Idiotic.

I never got why so much outrage about those two individuals! They had already assaulted other police officers, after they were called to sort an altercation with another male. This last officer was armed. He did the greatest of jobs at keeping that firearm safe at all times, he did not move his hand off it for a fraction of a second. With one arm and his legs, he reduced the two aggressors, all on his own. At the end of the video, you can see how one tries to get up fromthe floor before the officer had a chance to handcuff him.
I think many viewres believe the fraction of video that was shown and racism. Gain, their version. Instead of the whole of what actually happened.
You know, in many places, should two adult males send two police officers to hospital, they would be shot on the spot by the armed police attending as ap back up.

I know, even if he was racist and had said something, they shouldn't check that he had been stabbed? Because he was (potentially because they didn't even know if it was true) racist he had no duty of care by the police?

I found knife in my garden and it was also just a bog standard kitchen knife. The proximity factor makes it easy to grab and I'm for the rounded tips. Yes, it won't eliminate all the nutters who go out of their way to purchase, but shouldn't we eliminate some. Yes, gangsters can obtain guns, but does that mean we make them easily accessible?

Is and they’ve had since December to investigate. Scandalous that only now are they charging the accessories. I bet if it hadn’t been for X Instagram etc covering Spotlight they wouldn’t have even bothered.

I think they were waiting for the outcome of the trial. For example for the mum hiding the knife she’d be tried with assisting an offender. It’s punishable with up to ten years depending on the severity of underlying crime.

Given that he was convicted of murder it’s obviously the most severe crime but the jury could of returned a verdict of manslaughter so the sentencing guidelines would be lower or even acquitted based on self defence.

Yes this makes my blood boil especially when we have a benefits and pension crisis, why should this be allowed

They started their investigation the day after Henry died. But they cannot have access to most of the evidence until after the trial. They also can publicise things until after the trial.
They have said now that their hands are untied, the remaining investigation should take 3 months.

Their investigations rarely take less than a year - they absolutely have been investigating what they can over the last several months.

I also never understood why the video was released without the background behind it. Another Mum started all of this saying someone had racially abused her on the flight and the brothers hunted him down and assaulted him in the coffee shop.

They then went to the car park and started throwing punches when the police tried to speak to them.

What is it about these men who thought they were immune from being pulled up on anything they might choose to do.

There is an an arrogance with these young men from certain cultures who seem to think they are little Princes and the women bringing them up building on this.

Yes, a racist is worse than a murderer, it seems. In the world of Hampshire plods, very much worse.

Although I bet there's loads of police officers who are tired of all this race action plan / DEI nonsense.

The same rules should apply to everyone, no exemptions for religious or other minorities. Multiculturalism is making our society increasingly fractured and ungovernable. The police must go back to policing without fear or favour and treating everyone the same.

I agree with your first sentance but not your last one. There has never been a time when the police treated everyone the same.