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Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

797 replies

rolloverbeethoven · 02/06/2026 14:21

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

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25
Northermcharn · 04/06/2026 10:08

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 09:59

So you don’t think it’s important that black and brown people have faith and trust in the police? Just white people. What about white women? Or white people who are gay/lesbian?

Groups who have historically had good reason to be afraid of the police have finally seen some recognition of that, and efforts to correct it. But you want it to change that.

Are you always this vocal about police racism? Hampshire has been notorious for years, so there’s been plenty of opportunity. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-47355468

The lack of nuance on this thread is fucking depressing.

Are you ok, you seem to have processing / comprehension issue. I think ALL people should have trust in the police, no matter who they are. And that is what the vast majority of people think I am sure. Stop projecting.

Lalgarh · 04/06/2026 10:12

Northermcharn · 04/06/2026 10:04

'SpaceRaccoon · Today 07:39
Could Henry Nowak have survived? Dr. Krzysztof Magier
@DrMagier
, a pediatrician and former honorary consul of the Republic of Poland in Cowes, analyzed footage from a police body camera showing Henry Nowak's death. Dr. Magier heads the pediatric intensive care unit, with experience in combat medicine training and a specialized course in treating severe injuries (including gunshot and stab wounds).

He disagrees with the pathologist's and judge's opinion that Henry Nowak had no chance of survival and that handcuffing him essentially changed nothing. On the contrary—there is a high likelihood that the police intervention contributed to his death. He analyzed the autopsy report, which points to damage to the subclavian vein as the main source of bleeding, and explains where the problem lies. In a healthy person, venous bleeding occurs under low pressure and often self-limits thanks to the naturally forming clot, while simply approximating the wound edges and compressing the surrounding tissues closes the vein enough to slow or even stop the bleeding.

The body camera footage shows that when police arrived on the scene (likely 5-10 minutes after the injury), Henry was conscious enough to speak quite loudly. He was therefore not yet in a terminal state. After his arms were twisted behind his back and handcuffed, the vein was most likely stretched, the clot torn, and bleeding dramatically intensified. Within just about three minutes, he lost consciousness and died.

People with suspected internal injuries should never be moved or yanked abruptly—such actions can destroy the natural clot and lead to massive internal hemorrhage. Instead of immediately calling a medical rescue team and handing the patient over to paramedics, the police handcuffed him. If paramedics had arrived first on the scene, Henry’s chances of survival would have been much higher. "50%"—writes Dr. Magier.

Paramedics could have quickly started an IV, administered fluids to increase circulating blood volume, and tranexamic acid to stabilize the clot, and if needed, performed needle decompression (inserting a large, long needle into the lung), because the issue wasn’t so much lack of lung function, but compression of the blood-filled lung on the heart and mediastinum, which blocks circulation.

Worse still, the incident took place just a few minutes' drive by car (2–3 minutes by ambulance with sirens) from Southampton University Hospital—a regional Major Trauma Centre equipped with a full team of specialists, procedures, and equipment. "I am convinced that if Henry had arrived there alive, the doctors would not have let him die"—writes Dr. Magier.

In summary: the aggressive police intervention, instead of saving a life, led to death through improper handling of a severely injured person, even though world-class care was just minutes away. "I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police"—writes Dr. Magier.'

This is absolutely the way it looked in real time. HN was remarkably cognisant when the police first arrived, and went drastically downhill after they dragged him and handcuffed him. Horrific. More professional reviews are needed.

Yes this. The "well he would have died anyway" sounds like the authorities self soothing.

Sorry to ask but at what point were his handcuffs removed. Presumably before the ambulance arrives. Presumably he then got put in the recovery position or left as is for medics

Clafoutie · 04/06/2026 10:16

aurpod1980 · 02/06/2026 23:10

@VillageFeteyou’re free to argue that the law should be changed and that no religious exemptions should exist. That's a legitimate policy debate.

What doesn't follow is blaming an entire faith because one individual committed a murder.

The UK doesn't grant exemptions because it's "less Christian" than it used to be. It grants them because, historically, British law has tried to balance public safety with freedom of religion. If Parliament decides that balance should change, that's a matter for lawmakers.

But "one lunatic abused a privilege, therefore nobody of that faith can be trusted" isn't a principle most people would apply consistently. We don't normally remove rights from millions of law-abiding people because one person committed a crime.

The murderer is responsible for the murder. That's where the blame belongs.

Well said. Also, the knife used was not the one he was allowed to carry.

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:20

SpaceRaccoon · 04/06/2026 10:06

He was believed to be the perpetrator because he was white and his killer was Sikh and he was accused of racism.
He was disbelieved and his killer was believed, because of the invocation of the R-word.

You’re just repeating what I said. Yes, the police believed the person who said they were a victim.

What evidence is there that the police treated HN as a white person and not as a perpetrator of assault? For example, had Digwa stabbed a black young man would police on arrival have been more or less likely to handcuff him, if believing him to be the perpetrator of an assault?

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:23

Northermcharn · 04/06/2026 10:08

Are you ok, you seem to have processing / comprehension issue. I think ALL people should have trust in the police, no matter who they are. And that is what the vast majority of people think I am sure. Stop projecting.

We agree that all people should be able to trust the police.

The anti-racism guidelines were created as a result of the (justified) lack of trust some groups had.

So why do you disagree with those? How would you ensure that all groups had trust in the police? Because ‘treat everyone the same’ didn’t work for Stephen Lawrence, or for countless black men and women, victims or perpetrators or wrongly convicted. What would you do differently to educate the police to treat people all the same?

RoboBoogie · 04/06/2026 10:25

SpaceRaccoon · 04/06/2026 07:39

Could Henry Nowak have survived? Dr. Krzysztof Magier
@DrMagier
, a pediatrician and former honorary consul of the Republic of Poland in Cowes, analyzed footage from a police body camera showing Henry Nowak's death. Dr. Magier heads the pediatric intensive care unit, with experience in combat medicine training and a specialized course in treating severe injuries (including gunshot and stab wounds). He disagrees with the pathologist's and judge's opinion that Henry Nowak had no chance of survival and that handcuffing him essentially changed nothing. On the contrary—there is a high likelihood that the police intervention contributed to his death. He analyzed the autopsy report, which points to damage to the subclavian vein as the main source of bleeding, and explains where the problem lies. In a healthy person, venous bleeding occurs under low pressure and often self-limits thanks to the naturally forming clot, while simply approximating the wound edges and compressing the surrounding tissues closes the vein enough to slow or even stop the bleeding. The body camera footage shows that when police arrived on the scene (likely 5-10 minutes after the injury), Henry was conscious enough to speak quite loudly. He was therefore not yet in a terminal state. After his arms were twisted behind his back and handcuffed, the vein was most likely stretched, the clot torn, and bleeding dramatically intensified. Within just about three minutes, he lost consciousness and died. People with suspected internal injuries should never be moved or yanked abruptly—such actions can destroy the natural clot and lead to massive internal hemorrhage. Instead of immediately calling a medical rescue team and handing the patient over to paramedics, the police handcuffed him. If paramedics had arrived first on the scene, Henry’s chances of survival would have been much higher. "50%"—writes Dr. Magier. Paramedics could have quickly started an IV, administered fluids to increase circulating blood volume, and tranexamic acid to stabilize the clot, and if needed, performed needle decompression (inserting a large, long needle into the lung), because the issue wasn’t so much lack of lung function, but compression of the blood-filled lung on the heart and mediastinum, which blocks circulation. Worse still, the incident took place just a few minutes' drive by car (2–3 minutes by ambulance with sirens) from Southampton University Hospital—a regional Major Trauma Centre equipped with a full team of specialists, procedures, and equipment. "I am convinced that if Henry had arrived there alive, the doctors would not have let him die"—writes Dr. Magier. In summary: the aggressive police intervention, instead of saving a life, led to death through improper handling of a severely injured person, even though world-class care was just minutes away. "I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police"—writes Dr. Magier.

Well that's just the final distressing straw in this case really.
If the police had assessed the scene properly and provided first aid to Henry (as they will have been trained to do) when he told them he was injured then he may have survived.
The police officers who attended this scene for some reason decided not to believe Henry Nowak, and I hope the IOPC investigation will find out why.

I just don't understand how they got it so wrong when they could see the pallor of his skin, the blood coming from his mouth, the fact he couldn't stand, the fact that he said "I've been stabbed" and "I can't breathe" .

A good police officer should be able to dynamically risk assess a scene.
One of their first priorities should be to protect life.

Lalgarh · 04/06/2026 10:29

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:20

You’re just repeating what I said. Yes, the police believed the person who said they were a victim.

What evidence is there that the police treated HN as a white person and not as a perpetrator of assault? For example, had Digwa stabbed a black young man would police on arrival have been more or less likely to handcuff him, if believing him to be the perpetrator of an assault?

Id wager they'd almost certainly be less likely to handcuff him as a black male lying on the floor saying "I can't breathe" would surely have triggered some muscle memory of George Floyd.

There was even a statement on Hampshire police website about it with homilies that they would #DoBetter.

I've mentioned elsewhere, but as much as anything this does show how readily the best practices and movements from the US get imported and applied. It's like that Scottish green candidate who was arguing for prison abolition. This is standard progressive stuff to argue for in the west coast of the US and progressive safe spaces but evaporates when actually implemented as practice

SpaceRaccoon · 04/06/2026 10:30

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:20

You’re just repeating what I said. Yes, the police believed the person who said they were a victim.

What evidence is there that the police treated HN as a white person and not as a perpetrator of assault? For example, had Digwa stabbed a black young man would police on arrival have been more or less likely to handcuff him, if believing him to be the perpetrator of an assault?

You're so desperate to deny what is obvious to most people. There were two people making opposing claims there. The police chose to believe one of them over the other, despite that being the one who was up and mobile, and despite the other making a far more serious claim.
You only can't see that because you don't want to.

EasternStandard · 04/06/2026 10:32

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:23

We agree that all people should be able to trust the police.

The anti-racism guidelines were created as a result of the (justified) lack of trust some groups had.

So why do you disagree with those? How would you ensure that all groups had trust in the police? Because ‘treat everyone the same’ didn’t work for Stephen Lawrence, or for countless black men and women, victims or perpetrators or wrongly convicted. What would you do differently to educate the police to treat people all the same?

Because it’s unworkable and leading to bad outcomes.

They could be be quietly changed by Mahmood, or if not Starmer will go and they’ll change. If none of that happens a GE could see them revert to without fear or favour training.

Fixydodah · 04/06/2026 10:35

I wonder how many officers are thinking that joining the police service is no longer a viable career. They are so tied up in political correctness that the most basic crime scene investigation was bungled with tragic consequences because two Sikh men knew the magic word. All their training is focused on not upsetting different communities- they should be focused on protecting everyone. Grim days.

SpaceRaccoon · 04/06/2026 10:35

So why do you disagree with those? How would you ensure that all groups had trust in the police? Because ‘treat everyone the same’ didn’t work for Stephen Lawrence, or for countless black men and women, victims or perpetrators or wrongly convicted. What would you do differently to educate the police to treat people all the same?

Because they weren't treating everyone the same, at that point. And now they've over-corrected.
It does need to be "without fear or favour".

Fixydodah · 04/06/2026 10:36

Politically speaking this definitely puts an end to Labour now. They will cling on until end of term and then that will be them done as a national political party. It would take generations before they get voted back in.

5MinuteArgument · 04/06/2026 10:39

Lalgarh · 04/06/2026 09:56

The unspoken thing here, is son preference. Are there any daughters in that household? Someone upthread mentioned the family had "no honour". Actually this is totally about honour. That's why the mum would hide the blade. Because a mother who betrays her son to the police...? This might actually even count as some sort of honour killing as Digwa (i still can't fathom him turning up at his fckin accountancy firm WITH A SWORD. Do you think HR might have had someone complaining that they felt uneasy with him bandying it about? Do you think they would have given him a Gentle Discussion and a warning?) claiming he felt disrespected.

I think the main outcome observed from all this is a whole load of random ppl suddenly becoming aware that "Wha? They can carry blades?" Who didn't realise it before.

Yes, if anyone in that accountancy firm had expressed unease about Digwa carrying a knife in the office, that person would've been accused of racism.

Probably would've been given a double dose of diversity training and maybe lost any chance of promotion, maybe even put their job on the line.

clearlyy · 04/06/2026 10:48

Just watched the video. So so sad.

VillageFete · 04/06/2026 10:49

Clafoutie · 04/06/2026 10:16

Well said. Also, the knife used was not the one he was allowed to carry.

I’ve said it multiple times. Countless people on this thread have said similar. Nobody should be allowed to carry a dangerous weapon. This privilege should be revoked. It should never have been allowed in the first place. Legally being allowed to carry a dangerous weapon in the name of religion carries risk. Remove the risk. Disallow it.

It can cause division, distrust and intimidation.

What is the reason that some people on this thread are so hellbent on Sikhs still being allowed to carry knives on our streets? Because I cannot think of one good reason why this should be allowed.

5MinuteArgument · 04/06/2026 10:50

Lalgarh · 04/06/2026 10:29

Id wager they'd almost certainly be less likely to handcuff him as a black male lying on the floor saying "I can't breathe" would surely have triggered some muscle memory of George Floyd.

There was even a statement on Hampshire police website about it with homilies that they would #DoBetter.

I've mentioned elsewhere, but as much as anything this does show how readily the best practices and movements from the US get imported and applied. It's like that Scottish green candidate who was arguing for prison abolition. This is standard progressive stuff to argue for in the west coast of the US and progressive safe spaces but evaporates when actually implemented as practice

Yes, agree. The police would have acted differently if it had been two ethnic minorities in an altercation. They would have been more impartial.

But there's been an over-correction for past wrongs. We need to get back to the middle ground.

EasternStandard · 04/06/2026 10:52

5MinuteArgument · 04/06/2026 10:39

Yes, if anyone in that accountancy firm had expressed unease about Digwa carrying a knife in the office, that person would've been accused of racism.

Probably would've been given a double dose of diversity training and maybe lost any chance of promotion, maybe even put their job on the line.

Yes

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:52

SpaceRaccoon · 04/06/2026 10:35

So why do you disagree with those? How would you ensure that all groups had trust in the police? Because ‘treat everyone the same’ didn’t work for Stephen Lawrence, or for countless black men and women, victims or perpetrators or wrongly convicted. What would you do differently to educate the police to treat people all the same?

Because they weren't treating everyone the same, at that point. And now they've over-corrected.
It does need to be "without fear or favour".

And how would you ensure that happened, if not through training, policies and monitoring?

Lovethystupidneighbour · 04/06/2026 10:56

Dollymylove · 03/06/2026 15:20

Are you one of.the police officers involved
?

🤣 no

EasternStandard · 04/06/2026 10:56

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:52

And how would you ensure that happened, if not through training, policies and monitoring?

You’d re-do the training documents, take out equality of outcome and treat people differently and re do it all with the fear or favour lines.

Are you concerned about loss of trainers?

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:58

SpaceRaccoon · 04/06/2026 10:30

You're so desperate to deny what is obvious to most people. There were two people making opposing claims there. The police chose to believe one of them over the other, despite that being the one who was up and mobile, and despite the other making a far more serious claim.
You only can't see that because you don't want to.

I wouldn’t assume everyone agrees with my or your position. And I don’t rely on what can see from some distance, I prefer to look at a wider range of evidence and experience.

Clearly you prefer your opinion based on what you see, no interrogation or corroboration.

Very much like the way the police approached the situation. They simply believed what they were told by a liar, and acted on that basis.

PropertyD · 04/06/2026 10:59

Northermcharn · 04/06/2026 10:04

'SpaceRaccoon · Today 07:39
Could Henry Nowak have survived? Dr. Krzysztof Magier
@DrMagier
, a pediatrician and former honorary consul of the Republic of Poland in Cowes, analyzed footage from a police body camera showing Henry Nowak's death. Dr. Magier heads the pediatric intensive care unit, with experience in combat medicine training and a specialized course in treating severe injuries (including gunshot and stab wounds).

He disagrees with the pathologist's and judge's opinion that Henry Nowak had no chance of survival and that handcuffing him essentially changed nothing. On the contrary—there is a high likelihood that the police intervention contributed to his death. He analyzed the autopsy report, which points to damage to the subclavian vein as the main source of bleeding, and explains where the problem lies. In a healthy person, venous bleeding occurs under low pressure and often self-limits thanks to the naturally forming clot, while simply approximating the wound edges and compressing the surrounding tissues closes the vein enough to slow or even stop the bleeding.

The body camera footage shows that when police arrived on the scene (likely 5-10 minutes after the injury), Henry was conscious enough to speak quite loudly. He was therefore not yet in a terminal state. After his arms were twisted behind his back and handcuffed, the vein was most likely stretched, the clot torn, and bleeding dramatically intensified. Within just about three minutes, he lost consciousness and died.

People with suspected internal injuries should never be moved or yanked abruptly—such actions can destroy the natural clot and lead to massive internal hemorrhage. Instead of immediately calling a medical rescue team and handing the patient over to paramedics, the police handcuffed him. If paramedics had arrived first on the scene, Henry’s chances of survival would have been much higher. "50%"—writes Dr. Magier.

Paramedics could have quickly started an IV, administered fluids to increase circulating blood volume, and tranexamic acid to stabilize the clot, and if needed, performed needle decompression (inserting a large, long needle into the lung), because the issue wasn’t so much lack of lung function, but compression of the blood-filled lung on the heart and mediastinum, which blocks circulation.

Worse still, the incident took place just a few minutes' drive by car (2–3 minutes by ambulance with sirens) from Southampton University Hospital—a regional Major Trauma Centre equipped with a full team of specialists, procedures, and equipment. "I am convinced that if Henry had arrived there alive, the doctors would not have let him die"—writes Dr. Magier.

In summary: the aggressive police intervention, instead of saving a life, led to death through improper handling of a severely injured person, even though world-class care was just minutes away. "I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police"—writes Dr. Magier.'

This is absolutely the way it looked in real time. HN was remarkably cognisant when the police first arrived, and went drastically downhill after they dragged him and handcuffed him. Horrific. More professional reviews are needed.

If this is true its truly horrible. The police yanking him around, cuffing him certainly didnt help his injuries. That family - well words fail me. Waste of space Mum and Gran trying to excuse their son's actions and blaming the UK is disgraceful.

Why on earth are they here if there are better countries to bring up their children. The Father running a car wash. All cash in hand and there is quite honestly no point to this disgraceful family. They are all as bad as each other and making it about them at the end of the court case. Is that their excuse to everything. You are picking on us, we do what we like and we take and take from the UK.

THIS IS WHY FARAGE IS BEING LISTENED TO.

We have let all of this go too far in the wrong direction.

May they all rot in hell.

SpaceRaccoon · 04/06/2026 11:07

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 10:58

I wouldn’t assume everyone agrees with my or your position. And I don’t rely on what can see from some distance, I prefer to look at a wider range of evidence and experience.

Clearly you prefer your opinion based on what you see, no interrogation or corroboration.

Very much like the way the police approached the situation. They simply believed what they were told by a liar, and acted on that basis.

Not at all. You on thr other hand are applying the lens of your own beliefs to a situation that is clear to most people.

tengreencats · 04/06/2026 11:10

5MinuteArgument · 04/06/2026 10:39

Yes, if anyone in that accountancy firm had expressed unease about Digwa carrying a knife in the office, that person would've been accused of racism.

Probably would've been given a double dose of diversity training and maybe lost any chance of promotion, maybe even put their job on the line.

This is spot on. Meanwhile we had a nurse who had to go through courts for years to wear a small cross and we currently have NHS staff wearing I support Gaza badges in the workplace.

Allisnotlost1 · 04/06/2026 11:13

Lalgarh · 04/06/2026 10:29

Id wager they'd almost certainly be less likely to handcuff him as a black male lying on the floor saying "I can't breathe" would surely have triggered some muscle memory of George Floyd.

There was even a statement on Hampshire police website about it with homilies that they would #DoBetter.

I've mentioned elsewhere, but as much as anything this does show how readily the best practices and movements from the US get imported and applied. It's like that Scottish green candidate who was arguing for prison abolition. This is standard progressive stuff to argue for in the west coast of the US and progressive safe spaces but evaporates when actually implemented as practice

It’s a fair guess, but I’m not convinced. Remember this guy? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9gkj3lqpgo

Hampshire police arrested him, knew he was the wrong guy from the image, detained him anyway. Doesn’t speak to ‘treating brown people better’ does it?

Abolitionism started in the Enlightenment by the way, it’s not a US import.

Alvi Choudhury is wearing a suit and has dark short curly hair and a dark full beard

Mistaken arrest victim from Southampton says police were laughing

Alvi Choudhury said police knew he was innocent of a burglary 80 miles (130km) away in Milton Keynes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9gkj3lqpgo

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