Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

@SpaceRaccoonI didn’t realise that a neighbour had made an earlier call to the emergency services?
Did they not respond then?

Yes, their training tells them to always believe an accusation of racism and to act accordingly. Their top priority is to tackle racism, not to catch criminals.

We have allowed accusations of racism to become weaponised and this Digwan family have played that card.

No - they only responsed once the Digwa phone call claiming racism was made.

This is not just a simple error of judgement. Most of us recognise that the police do a difficult dangerous job.

But there is something wrong with their training where the anti-racism has led them to be biased rather than objective and even handed. So they go into a situation like this believing without question what Digwa tells them and treating Henry as a criminal.

How embarrassingly facile

I haven't seen reports of an earlier phone call? Just the one that the killer's family made

The police ignore
shoplifting
burglary
car thefts
and now it seems
stabbings

'The Independent Office for Police Conduct's (IOPC) is reviewing a guidance document from the National Police Chiefs' Council, external which says its goal of "producing equality of policing outcomes... does not mean treating everyone 'the same' or being 'colour blind'...".

Says it all. the opposite of MLK's intent. What a shocker that the police (and other institutions) are where they are.

https://www.npcc.police.uk/our-work/police-race-action-plan/police-anti-racism-commitment/

'which set the overarching ambition of the plan for a police service that was anti-racist and trusted by Black people' - But it is not now trusted by White people (they felt the need to capitalise colour). I'm glad they're reviewing it.

More enrichment for the UK. And yes, every mother would conceal the knife of a murderer who had just stabbed someone to death. After all, UK laws can be disregarded at will.

I know they are the scum of the earth they started an argument with Henry’s family. Shame on them all I hope they get their just desserts in prison.

I didn’t mention anything about skin colour.

Since it’s the only thing you mentioned I assume you’re in agreement that we regularly treat people differently as a way of ensuring equality of opportunity.

There’s just no evidence that Digwa was treated differently because of his skin colour. His treatment was because his claim of being the victim was believed. Nothing should have been believed at that point, any claims should be investigated with an open mind.

What a forensic response.

This all day long and it’s not the first time a long list.

Yes, it needs to be reviewed as a matter of urgency, before the next white person falls foul of these policies which will only enrage more people and make it harder for the police in the long run.

I don’t think religion is a good enough reason to have an exemption to the law. I’m amazed people are falling over themselves to say it should be. Either we are banned from carrying knives or we’re not.

Many Americans believe it’s their right to carry guns, but we (quite rightly) don’t make an exception for them in the UK.

The vast majority of Sikhs are peaceful people but most of us would feel intimidated if we know someone was walking the streets or on public transport with a knife.
And who’s to say someone with evil intentions may not pose as a Sikh in order to carry a knife? Especially with all the publicity this has received, many people were unaware there was this exception to the law (I had no idea) so it has brought it more into the mainstream.

Yes, I feel doubtful about the very hasty assertion that Henry couldn't have been saved even if he'd been treated appropriately and an ambulance had been called straight away.

I've done first aid and even I know you don't manhandle someone who may have been stabbed. And hancuffing his hands behind him is very likely to have exacerbated his injuries.

Apparently the police then started CPR before they realised he had a chest injury

Everything suggests it relates to his ethnicity. Digwa's claim of being a victim specifically of racism was believed.
Henry claim of being a victiim of stabbing was disbelieved - "I don't think you have, mate", and "I know [he hasn't been stabbed] but we have to check".

The unspoken thing here, is son preference. Are there any daughters in that household? Someone upthread mentioned the family had "no honour". Actually this is totally about honour. That's why the mum would hide the blade. Because a mother who betrays her son to the police...? This might actually even count as some sort of honour killing as Digwa (i still can't fathom him turning up at his fckin accountancy firm WITH A SWORD. Do you think HR might have had someone complaining that they felt uneasy with him bandying it about? Do you think they would have given him a Gentle Discussion and a warning?) claiming he felt disrespected.

I think the main outcome observed from all this is a whole load of random ppl suddenly becoming aware that "Wha? They can carry blades?" Who didn't realise it before.

So you don’t think it’s important that black and brown people have faith and trust in the police? Just white people. What about white women? Or white people who are gay/lesbian?

Groups who have historically had good reason to be afraid of the police have finally seen some recognition of that, and efforts to correct it. But you want it to change that.

Are you always this vocal about police racism? Hampshire has been notorious for years, so there’s been plenty of opportunity. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-47355468

The lack of nuance on this thread is fucking depressing.

I'd imagine most of us think it's important that the police do their jobs without bias, so that a teenager doesn't choke to death on his own blood handcuffed and face down in some gravel?

It’s not possible for police to do this, it leads to terrible outcomes such as Henry Nowak. And public outcry.

It needs to actually be without fear or favour.

It would be uncommon for a white person to phone the police and say they’d been a victim of racism, so a person making that claim is likely to be black or brown. So yes, to that extent it is about his skin colour.

But that’s not what people are arguing about, is it? The claim is that Henry Nowak was treated differently because of his skin colour/ethnicity. For that to be true, we have to discount that possibility that he was treated differently because he was believed to be the perpetrator. What evidence is there of that?

ETA: The handling of HN was wrong even if he had been the perpetrator.

'SpaceRaccoon · Today 07:39
Could Henry Nowak have survived? Dr. Krzysztof Magier
@DrMagier
, a pediatrician and former honorary consul of the Republic of Poland in Cowes, analyzed footage from a police body camera showing Henry Nowak's death. Dr. Magier heads the pediatric intensive care unit, with experience in combat medicine training and a specialized course in treating severe injuries (including gunshot and stab wounds).

He disagrees with the pathologist's and judge's opinion that Henry Nowak had no chance of survival and that handcuffing him essentially changed nothing. On the contrary—there is a high likelihood that the police intervention contributed to his death. He analyzed the autopsy report, which points to damage to the subclavian vein as the main source of bleeding, and explains where the problem lies. In a healthy person, venous bleeding occurs under low pressure and often self-limits thanks to the naturally forming clot, while simply approximating the wound edges and compressing the surrounding tissues closes the vein enough to slow or even stop the bleeding.

The body camera footage shows that when police arrived on the scene (likely 5-10 minutes after the injury), Henry was conscious enough to speak quite loudly. He was therefore not yet in a terminal state. After his arms were twisted behind his back and handcuffed, the vein was most likely stretched, the clot torn, and bleeding dramatically intensified. Within just about three minutes, he lost consciousness and died.

People with suspected internal injuries should never be moved or yanked abruptly—such actions can destroy the natural clot and lead to massive internal hemorrhage. Instead of immediately calling a medical rescue team and handing the patient over to paramedics, the police handcuffed him. If paramedics had arrived first on the scene, Henry’s chances of survival would have been much higher. "50%"—writes Dr. Magier.

Paramedics could have quickly started an IV, administered fluids to increase circulating blood volume, and tranexamic acid to stabilize the clot, and if needed, performed needle decompression (inserting a large, long needle into the lung), because the issue wasn’t so much lack of lung function, but compression of the blood-filled lung on the heart and mediastinum, which blocks circulation.

Worse still, the incident took place just a few minutes' drive by car (2–3 minutes by ambulance with sirens) from Southampton University Hospital—a regional Major Trauma Centre equipped with a full team of specialists, procedures, and equipment. "I am convinced that if Henry had arrived there alive, the doctors would not have let him die"—writes Dr. Magier.

In summary: the aggressive police intervention, instead of saving a life, led to death through improper handling of a severely injured person, even though world-class care was just minutes away. "I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police"—writes Dr. Magier.'

This is absolutely the way it looked in real time. HN was remarkably cognisant when the police first arrived, and went drastically downhill after they dragged him and handcuffed him. Horrific. More professional reviews are needed.

He was believed to be the perpetrator because he was white and his killer was Sikh and he was accused of racism.
He was disbelieved and his killer was believed, because of the invocation of the R-word.