Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Let's remove the fire hazards, so the house will not even ignite, shall we?

Yes they told the judge he was racist 🙄. They keep using that word....

I suspect the officer who used those fatal words ‘ I don’t think you have mate’ must be almost in hiding. His name will be known by most of Hants Police especially as he has been moved to desk duties abs probably from home.

He didn’t realistically go to that incident deciding he would automatically give the benefit of the doubt to a ethnic minority but his training taught him to ensure he didn’t immediately handcuff the perpetrator precisely because he was Sikh and Digwa knew this.

What I will say re the sgian-dubh is it's legal for anyone wearing full ceremonial kilt dress, in Scotland, England or Wales - there's no ethnic or religious bar to that, so it differs from the law around kirpans that only applies to Sikhs.

The other thing is that I lived in Glasgow during the peak of the knife deaths crises - there were kids killing each other every weekend, and they weren't in kilts, and they weren't using sgian-dubh - they were using samurai swords and machetes, mostly bought from a notorious shop called Victor Morris.

Except it’s by and large, not a dangerous exemption to the law. Hence where stats come into it. But like you said, it’s not about stats. Which leads me to think you actually DONT give a fuck, despite your ramblings.

Your last sentence gives you away.

@VillageFeteYou were making a policy argument right up until the point you told Sikhs to "fuck off somewhere else."

At that point, this stopped being about equality under the law and became about whether a religious minority belongs in Britain.

You're perfectly entitled to argue that religious exemptions should be abolished. What you're not entitled to do is pretend that British Sikhs are somehow guests in a country they've helped build and served for generations.

If your argument is strong, it shouldn't require telling people to leave the country because they disagree with you.

Bullshit. Don’t start all that. Here we go with the racism card/ religious bigotry.

If you don’t like to be told that you can’t carry a deadly weapon even thought it’s inline with your cultural or religious beliefs, you don’t agree with it, and choose not to abide by said rule, then fuck off somewhere that allows it. It should be zero tolerance.

Sikhs, Scotsmen, and whomever else is granted an exemption. Nobody, NOBODY, should be entitled to walk around with a deadly weapon.

This just sadly proves that so many people are using the race card to get out things and it’s ridiculous.

I mean to call everyone racist when your son has stabbed someone to death is beyond comprehension. It’s embedded now to call everyone racist to get out of despicable behaviour.

it’s got to stop. People are losing lives and jobs because of so called racism when it’s not even true just excuse their own shocking behaviour.

which in turn is probably making the most tolerant people a tiny bit racist in itself ie it’s backfiring on itself.

it’s becoming a fine line.

I saw reports that he has, in the past, received an award for bravery. I think though that there will be people quite happy to make him the sacrificial lamb, while those who implemented the policies, and the activists who influenced the policies, will walk away unscathed.
That's not intended to absolve the officers there, basic common sense and compassion were sorely lacking, but it is obviously a problem that comes from the top down.
Heads should roll for what happened to Henry in his last minutes of his life and, ultimately,the pendulum needs to rest in neutral.

And these bloody human rights lawyers and courts etc allowing immigrant rapists and murderers from misogynist countries to stay in the country has also got to stop. This has definitely gone too far. They get our barristers to defend them too in too court as legal aid. What other country allows this 🤷‍♀️.

When they started get police officers fresh from universities

at that age most people have very little life experience

@VillageFeteThe irony is that you're arguing against collective punishment while advocating it.

You recognise that one murderer shouldn't define all Sikhs, yet you're willing to remove a religious practice from every law-abiding Sikh because of the actions of one man.

If your principle is that a right or exemption should disappear whenever a criminal abuses it, then very few rights would survive.

You're angry about a horrific murder. So am I. The difference is that I'm still focused on the murderer, whereas you seem determined to make millions of people answer for him.

Yes, it’s like one of those horrible nightmares where you scream for help and no-one hears. Truly awful..

I will have to agree to disagree with you on this.

I have no doubt in my mind that the absolute vast majority of Sikhs are decent, law abiding citizens, but I believe with my whole heart that minorities of people (Scots in full regalia included) shouldn’t have this pass. They shouldn’t have this exemption. It carries a risk. The privilege can be abused.

I had no idea that Sikhs had this right. Maybe that’s ignorant of me. Had this murder not have occurred then I would still be adamant with my whole heart, now that I know they can legally carry this weapon, that they, nor any other group, should be allowed to walk freely with a deadly weapon. We know how dangerous knives can be. Why on earth would we allow this as a Country? I cannot get my head around it. It frightens and disgusts me.

I just found the judge's sentencing remarks and read the ten pages. I've already forgotten how the discussion between the two brothers was known, but I'm glad it was.

The reason you had no idea is because the exemption has never caused issues.

A much higher proportion of homicides are committed with kitchen knives. Are you arguing that we should get rid of these too?

Never caused issues until now…

No. We shouldn’t get rid of kitchen knives, and we shouldn’t get rid of kirpans either. We should, however, have a law in place to stop any individual walking around with a deadly knife because their religion dictates it’s ok.

Keep it at home. It serves no purpose to have it on your person whilst walking down the street.

Ok, well let’s abolish wheelchair ramps and disabled toilets, make the age of criminal responsibility ‘from birth’, no more child fares, have everyone pay 40% tax regardless of earnings and get rid all single sex spaces. No more parental leave or child benefit, no more priority boarding for family tickets for attractions. That’s the law! Everyone is the equal, so let’s treat everyone the same regardless of age, sex, disability, race, pregnancy, sexuality or marital status yes?

Most Scots wouldn’t carry a bladed sgian dubh. Many of them have a decorative handle but the blade part is made of plastic that you tuck in your sock. You couldn’t get in a pub/ club/ even most wedding venues ban them. Kilts are generally worn places where folk will be drinking. Weddings, fancy events, Highland Games, sporting events. It’d be bonkers to bring a sharpened blade to that sort of thing. The only exception would be on burns night when the chap delivering the ode to the haggis slices it open.

I googled and haven’t managed to find any sgian dubh related stabbing.

The whole Sikh community shouldn’t have their religious rights taken away by the abhorrent actions of one deranged individual. Under current U.K law, Sikhs can carry a kirpan for religious reasons. If you don’t like the law then I suggest that you fuck off somewhere that is more to your liking. Adios amigo! Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

Very well said.

I’d rather have a fresh faced university graduate as a trainee police officer than someone with 2 GCSE’s and the emotional range of a teaspoon

It is a functioning knife. God does not need a knife. You cannot, in all truth, tell me that you think spirituality is linked to a sharp metal object. Instead of purely about the person's soul and mind.
Do we all remember this case?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21025710
Where there was a courtcase about a lady wearing a small cross around her neck. This does not harm anyone. It is not a weapon. Yet it was a huge issue.
Why is a sharp blade, thin enough to result in mainly internal bleeding, any flipping different from a simple item of jewlery? We cannot even question that it is time to shelf this knives. Just have a decorative case. End.

This 100%.
There are two issues here.
The murder of this young man. Horrific. Blamed to one family.

The fact that we have now learnt that there are exemptions about (non work related, other legitimate reasons) carrying knives! I mean.... quite unbelievable! And that we have also made very aware that police is trained to treat us differently, depending on..... ethnicity. On their written policy. This other issue is to be tackled as a nation. And I do not want to walk around streets where the other pedestrians can carry blades in this fashion.

I don't think different ethnic groups should have different treatment. Skin colour isn't a disability.