Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Quite. It really is as simple as MLK said.

I’ve been listening to police / ex police today and that’s in their training guidelines rn. Pretty much don’t treat people the same and aim for equality of outcome.

Some good arguments from them on why that’s problematic. Whether it should change should be more of a discussion.

There is a bigger emphasis on equity these days rather than equality.

They did fail him - but it wasn't individual. It was systemic. They're a product of their employers and their job.

The one who said ' I don't think you have mate' - is a policeman who comes across very nasty lying criminals every single day in his job. Many of the people they deal with day in day out, are the worst of society, lying to them. He's an officer who thought (had been told and didn't question) that the white man was the racist aggressor to the poor brown people, because he's been indoctrinated by a 2 tier policing system. Which has been enforced by the gvt

So who were all the bystanders? How come none of them comforted Henry or called the ambulance or at least forcibly told the police how badly injured he was. Were they too afraid to say something? I’m not defending the police but I can see that they were misled by a group of people acting like Henry was drunk and had fallen over the wall. Henry’s poor family , so sorry xx

Yes. they are told that about travellers for example. Fact.

But, let's say, for the sake of it (we know it did not happen), that the young white man was racist to the brothers. They still stabbed him and he would have still been dying at the time the police arrived. So, physical aggression, severe one here, should take precedence over any verbal issue. A non aggressive suspect should not be handcuffed. Someone saying I have been stabbed should be thouroughly checked. That is all it takes.

Exactly. Our institutions are stuffed full of the middle class hobby horse progressive pretzel turning do gooders I’m talking about who would have the rest of us believe that equality is complex. No! It’s bloody well not. It means treating everyone the same without fear or favour. Equality being complex is disingenuous rubbish, pushed by those whose very careers depend on identity politics.

It’s incredibly difficult to follow, leads to awful incidents such as this one and as one ex police said it shouldn’t be their remit to get to equality of outcome.

I’m devastated for Henry, heartbroken. I can’t begin to imagine the pain his family has and is, going through. I have a 19 year old DS, and the thought of Henry’s parents having to watch that harrowing footage, it’s beyond my capabilities. They will forever want to reach out and sooth him, while he is dying, it’s utterly heartbreaking.

I don’t know how to comment really. I applaud the Sikh community, I’ve read some of the articles they’ve posted, in absolute disgust of the guilty party, this is definitely needed.

I’m far too emotional to post my thoughts tbh. It does feel one sided at times, that’s all I add.

You’ve explained the motivation of the murderer and his family, but it does not explain the poor judgement and training of the police.

I cannot see how equality of outcome can be a valid target to reach when it comes to law and order.

I hope more police members go public and say what directives they’ve been given and from where those directives have come. I gather that Hampshire police had a statement on their website about George Floyd. Words fail me, they really do.

I hope all the killers family end up with convictions for something.

Same, how is it even possible? Such a bad way to guide police. How can they work with it.

That's absolutely right. These Equality / DEI (for want of a better description) 'problems and solutions' are essential to their purpose. So of course, they must be 'complex' 🙄

Well our dear leader doesn't think there is two tier policing

He also thinks some women have a penis. So..

It has been news to me that police is told to treat us differently based on ethnicity! I did not know and I now 100% get this two tier policing. Well, there may be more than two tiers. And this shite only leads to prejudice.
In an emergency, we should all be treated the same, no nuance needed when it comes to tend to an stabbed young man.
It is for those who later on would have all the information from the investigation to take into account any nuance.
What about if I look full on white British, but I am actually from Africa? How should I be treated by a police officer called to deal with me? They have never seen me and they know nothing about me. But, if I am lying on the ground, being rather quiet and showing no aggression, well, whatever my ethnicity, they can proceed without considering me a threat. No need to put me on a choke hold, right?
Only nuance I would accept is if they are shown how to identify signs of anger, swearing or similar that may allow them to foresee or identify aggression in other languages/ cultures.

Zia Yusseff has said that as Home Secretary he would deport the mother, who abetted the crime by concealing the weapon, as she has dual nationality. Her other nation can have her and good riddance.

Agree.

No sarcasm in my post, merely advice. Bully for you watching and listening to all the current affairs programmes. Enjoy your tea; I’ve just had homemade veg chilli and very nice it was too.

I think the footage as he lay dying is harrowing - how utterly sad to die like that, alone and unbelieved. Why are the police officers involved not sacked already? I rarely feel this strongly but the way that one of them dismissed he had been stabbed as he lay dying makes me so angry. He said he had been stabbed and couldn’t breathe - why didn’t they just look and see? His family must be devastated to see this.

Exactly my thoughts. The police didn’t cause his death obviously but they made his last moments truly horrendous. Imagine bleeding to death, choking on your own blood and finally, help has arrived but no, they don’t listen to you saying you’ve been stabbed and can’t breathe. They tell you to put your hands behind your back and put your hand in the cuff!

I’m no medical expert but he was clearly not in a ‘normal’ state and quite unwell. Everyone else was standing around able bodied but they arrest the person who says they’ve been stabbed and can’t breathe? Is it usual for people to lie to the police that they’ve been stabbed? I would have thought if someone says that, a normal person would take that seriously and at least check. It’s absolutely shocking and the body cam footage is even worse than I expected it to be.

Agreed!

That scum killer was looming over Henry and he was told to move back. He said Henry hadn’t been stabbed and showed them that he had a small cut over his eye and his turban had been ripped off. We now know he did that himself

Why he stabbed Henry isn’t clear to me but he 100% used his race to get the police attention away from that dying boy.

His scum Mother then hid the knife.