Henry Nowak second thread, as requested.

[rolloverbeethoven]

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5536249-henry-nowak?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Would the lie have worked if the young man wasn't white?

The minimum has he been carrying a knife illegally is 25 years. He got a minimum of 21 years, due to the judge applying the mitigation.

But the attorney general is reviewing that to possibly send to the court of appeal to have the sentence increased, due to him using the larger knife and all the rest of it.

Either way, he got life and can only apply for parole in 21 years. He won’t be automatically free in 21 years. And it would be a brave parole board to release him, so I don’t think he ever will be.

It's going to be a disaster if this issue of policing and policy aren't addressed soon. The far right will gather even more momentum all all these communities will be effectively defunded if the likes of Reform actually get in. They'll turn into lawless hellholes and the police will really be in for a hard time then .I hope the government manages to nip it in the bud but I'm afraid it might be too late.

I thought you were only meant to handcuff people if risk of violence or escape, he was weak on the floor

He -the murderer -wasn’t handcuffed at any point.
Even when he was allowed into the station canteen to choose something to eat (because of course, you work up an appetite murdering) he wasn’t handcuffed.
He was treated with kid gloves -unlike Henry.
Frankly I’m surprised the duty Sargent didn’t take the knee as he was booking him in.
I presume he was arrested for murder -but the coppers didn’t see fit to cuff him.
Unlike Henry who died listening to how he was being arrested.
The utterly stupid coppers didn’t even notice Henry’s cyanotic hands -which jump out at me, a lay person with no police training.
I wonder what they teach them at police training now as it’s not preservation of white life is it?

Probably not, since many white people believe all brown people are the same and don’t recognise racism between minority groups.

That aside, I realise you think you’re making a big point, but of course any liar will use whatever is available to them. Plenty of cases where women have killed men and claimed to have been in fear of abused. That claim is far less likely to be believed the other way around, but oddly no-one is calling for changes to VAWG guidelines.

His hands were very noticeable, I thought the same.

For context, police are usually very gentle with a suspect/DP in the station who is not kicking off. It’s a tactic, and to avoid any claims of breach of PACE - forced confessions etc. - that could result in the case getting thrown out. In this case allowing his brother to travel with him helped them gather evidence.

I haven’t seen it confirmed that Digwa was not even handcuffed on arrest. If not I’m surprised and that sounds like an error.

Most people are aware of racism between various groups this is why it is widely known (even accepted) that Jewish people in the UK don't feel safe going out onto their own streets etc etc. I realise you think you're showing such lofty awareness but in reality the police are explicitly trained to treat different communities/races differently and we're now reaching a point where we can't accept it anymore. Hope you can accept this soon and try to help to stop the march of the far right because it's only getting worse currently, largely because people are freely using the word 'racist' to shut down discussion and freely disparaging white people and their culture.

This isn’t quite right. Under schedule 21, the starting point for a murder when a knife is taken to the scene with the purpose
to use it to commit an offence or to have it available to do so is 25 years.

In this case, the judge accepted that Digwa had the knife for a legal reason, hence the starting point was 15 years.

The judge uplifted the sentence from the started point because of the aggravating features, he didn’t mitigate it down.

As I’ve said already, my view is that the judge was entitled to start at 25 years, because the use of the knife negated the legal reason. If he then uplifted from there you’d be looking at 27/28 years. But that’s just my opinion.

I don’t agree, but we’re different people so have different life experiences.

I don’t think you know much about police training if you think that’s how it works. Equality is more complex than ‘treat everyone the same’, and you know and accept that in many areas of your life. I don’t know why some people are struggling with nuance in this case.

At no point have I disparaged white culture or called anyone racist. I wonder what white culture is, because my Irish mother’s is quite different to her Spanish husband’s, and my Polish neighbours (who probably have something in common with Henry Nowak’s paternal lineage). Nothing to disparage, I enjoy it all.

If you want to support the far right, throwing missiles at the police and making women feel unsafe on the street, staying poor and angry, please do so. If that’s your idea of white culture, embrace it. Don’t be afraid to admit it or keep blaming people who disagree with you for your political leanings.

Re your second paragraph have you done police training?

You could always do what most people do and watch the news or read transcripts of the trial. Relying on MN forms to supply you with accurate news is lazy, no different from listening to gossip. Members are exchanging views and giving their opinions.

Yes, I think that's what im trying to get at in a layperson sort of way.

It was no longer a religious or ceremonial knife once he unsheathed it and stabbed HN. It was just a knife then. So why didn't the judge then start at 25years ?

I am glad the sentencing is being looked at.

As an observer, yes. You?

I've been a lifelong Labour voter and would never vote Reform, but they're on their way, partly for economic reasons non of us can controlz but partly because people like you are forever like 'wHaT iS wHiTe CuLTUrE' despite being surrounded by it in Britain. Honestly keep bleating, you are turning more people that way.

The kirpan issue is so confusing. I have watched lots of Sikh commentators and they can't agree whether the murder weapon was a kirpan or not especially considering he was wearing a 'pendant' around his neck.
Personally I think any lethal weapon should be banned but at the very least can we agree what is reasonable. He even wore the dagger/kirpan at his workplace which is wild to me. Presumably no one thought to check because they didn't want to be called racist.

I’m a few pages behind so unsure if you’ve made any more comments, but your first so called “factual” post, and now this, is disgraceful.

Are you in the police? Married to an officer? Blindly loyal to British policing for some other reason?

Anyone can see from the video that no common sense was used. The officer’s comment was sickening. It was clear as day that a young man was not in a good way, lying down, defenceless. It was handled abhorrently.

The anger and the outrage displayed at the incompetency is valid. More of it needs to directed towards the top of the chain. Those at the top, including Government and senior policing are in an untenable position.

The fact that they didn’t cause his death is irrelevant. They failed him. They enabled his last moments to be that of terror and agony with no care or compassion “I don’t think you have, mate”….

I hope it haunts that incompetent idiot for the rest of his life.

We know they couldn’t save him. We know that they didn’t cause his death. But their lack of common sense and decent judgement make a horrendous situation all the worse.

Can you imagine if it was only Christians that were allowed to carry knives?
The system privileges minority groups over the majority in many areas of law.
This will end up causing resentment which is not worth the outcome. A sensible approach would be to have one system of law for all citizens.

The officers in this case acted in accordance with their training. Which is to believe all accusations of racism and as a result they'll side with an ethnic minority when in dispute with a white British person. The police, like most of our institutions, have been captured by 'progressive' ideology and this is the result.

There is talk of the police reviewing their training. I hope that happens. Because if we get more cases like this it can only lead to a complete breakdown of trust and escalating anger.

@Allisnotlost1 Equality is more complex than ‘treat everyone the same’,

equality is exactly treating everyone the same. It’s the very definition of equality. It’s comments suggesting equality is more complex than that and so called progressive do gooders turning themselves into pretzels to justify that complexity that has led us to where we are.

There is a big problem here. No one should be allowed to carry knives (bar for work related). If of religious or cultural importance, let's replace the functioning knife with a decorative bit. Not even a blunt blade, because you still can harm someone with that. Just and empty case, for pure decoration.
I think the murderer had a beyond culture attachment to knives, indeed. But, also, in UK, we do have an issue with carrying knives and knife attacks, so let's get rid of all knives.

In reply to your pompous sarcasm, I will tell you that I mostly have the Today programme on the radio in a morning, I often watch Question Time, and I also often listen to Any Questions and Any Answers, for so many years that I can remember the days when Ralph Wightman and Russell Braddon were on Any Questions. I also sometimes catch the Radio 4 programmes later on a Saturday morning, when I think I can hear measured political analysis. I'm not relying on Mumsnet, although I am lazy in certain areas of my life. So this is gossip, here on MN, is it? Well, that's a shame because there are some people who will read inaccurate things and go bleating off somewhere spreading the lies and causing trouble in this country. Some views on here are worth a damn sight more than others. There have been some good pieces of information here about the carrying of knives et cetera. But I'll go away now, because it's tea time.

Well you are the one who based your entire opinion of Indians and Sikism on two people you had a brief chat with...

When I was younger an old white man warned me to 'never go near council estates as they're full of lazy white benefit scroungers who are racist and procreate at 16 to get more benefits and the back of a box of coco pops is about all they'll ever read...if they can read'. Thankfully - unlike you - I didnt form my opinion on entire group of people based on the opinion of one person.

This may have been posted upthread, but it bears repeating. This is what the killers' brother said to the police when he rang them

“We’ve just got attacked racially by some white person. He’s physically attacked my brother, we’re Sikhs, we wear a turban and he’s just attacked my brother. We’re restraining him right now because he’s just attacked my brother and took my brother’s turban off. He also said, he’s verbally attacked my brother racially. I’m not having this as a regular occurrence, I live here, I’m not having this a regular occurrence. He ain’t fighting people, he’s racially attacking people, that’s what he’s doing. Nah, he sees some brown people, that’s what it was.”

Lying pos. He needs to go to prison for a long time too - it's because of him that the police turned up with a preconceived idea of what had happened. They asked no questions. Indoctrinated by 2 tier policing, led by the gvt. We all see it. Starmer cannot deny it.