Three women's bodies found in the sea at Brighton

[BlackTogetherAgain]

This is absolutely heartbreaking.

Why didn't anyone report three women were missing?

If it's a Channel crossing, from what I understand, it's rare that women go on the boats from France, and when they do they are pushed to the back / bottom, where the risk of being crushed is high.

If it's not a crossing, what on earth has happened?

Words can't express how evil this is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwyg508gg28t

TBF this is another stretch of south coast but the signs are similar all the way along. Npt sure what more they could do.

I can’t see signs but personally they should be clear bright warning signs. As pp said they and me have not recently seen signs at Brighton. All
they need to do is warn, especially of the shelf.

Last time I was in Brighton on a sunny afternoon I saw a small group of lads leave the pub, run across the road barefoot weaving in and out of traffic over the railings onto the beach and into the sea

No stopping to read signs - just 'crazy' drunken high spirits that can - and does end in tragedy even in the middle of the day

Mad isn’t it? But I still think if there are clear signs someone either stops to read/notice them or they don’t.

This happens every year and it’s desperately sad - usually young people from out of town who go in the sea (often alcohol is involved) and don’t realise how unsafe is Then another goes in to help them and it’s game over for them both.

Yes, every year, and all over the country, too. Lots in freshwater.

There should be a comprehensive water safety programme in all schools. We are a small island, for heavens' sake. And we also have a lot of lakes and rivers.

I know you can't account for all youth and stupidity, but public health education programmes do work well to greatly lessen the number of people affected. The Slip Slop Slap campaign in Australia about sun safety is an example.

It happened to a family member just before Christmas last year. Not a shred of publicity by the media and the police didn’t want to know.

There are signs. All along the seafront. But visitors don’t pay much attention. On stormy days the lifeguards event put up big windbreaks with warnings NOT to swim or go near the water‘s
edge. You’ll still see people in even then.
Visitors get it in their heads sometimes that they HAVE to get in the sea, they HAVE have the late night or dawn or sunset or full moon swim. And they don’t change their plans for bad weather or big waves.

And I don’t see what signs would have done in this case anyway, unfortunately.

Exactly. I dont know where people are getting the idea that signs would have prevented this- there are signs. When this incident happened, the sea was absolutely freezing cold, dark, rough, and choppy as hell. The weather was cold and it would have been dark because it was prior to sunrise between 4-5am, so not light.

Brighton beach down near the pier area is not pleasant at this time of year at that time of day. This isnt the gentle lapping waves of a balmy, warm, crystal clear Caribbean sea we are talking about here. Its Brighton.

The beach here is extremely painful to walk on without shoes, it really bloody hurts your feet. The sea at this time would have been rough, choppy, dark and freezing cold. Its not remotely inviting at that time of day/year and so sadly, I suspect alcohol was involved because this isnt a nice place you'd choose to go "for a paddle" at that time in the am and its not something you'd consider when sober and in a logical state of mind. There's a reason why that area was deserted when this happened and there were no witnesses.

Humans are very bad at emotionally feeling danger when nothing bad has happened yet, everyone else seems relaxed, or the activity feels temporary and low-stakes (“just for a second”). This is why people often do risky things on holiday that they would never, ever, do when at home - because their perception of risk is lowered.

Signs work best when someone is already in a cautious, sober mindset. They work less well when someone thinks: “We’re only going near the edge for a second" and they are intoxicated and their inhibitions lowered.

So, whilst coastal safety measures are always worth discussing, there probably isn’t a simple “if only there had been one more sign” explanation here.

If anything, I think the best way to get people to connect to danger on an emotional level where they are most likely to remember it, is more likely to be achieved from those horrifying public information adverts from the 70s/80s. Those things have been burned into my brain because they were scary as hell and worked far better on an emotional level than a sign I paid no attention to.

I meant signs on the beach.

But shelves in the sand shift all the time due to tides etc. You can’t say, there’s a shelf here, let’s put a sign up. People need to use their common sense.

What stuck with me was a TV thing. Maybe Grange Hill ?

Part of the story was kids playing by a Canal lock and a character drowned. Scared the shit out of me.

I went swimming drunk at night in Brighton, this was 10 years ago. I still remember the fear I felt looking back to the shore and realising the twinkling lights were much further away than I expected. It makes my blood run cold to remember it

Yes- exactly, and you remembered that well into adult hood so your memory thought it was important enough to remember it because it affected you emotionally!

I think showing videos about water safety at school would be a great idea. Far more useful than some of the crap I learned at school that ive never used in later life.

Exactly. They constantly shift and move with the weather, particularly stormy weather/ high winds. High tide is always going to be less safe than low - anywhere. Not just Brighton.
swimmers need to respect the sea if they want to stay safe. Brighton isn’t generally an unsafe beach to swim at.

Common sense though sadly goes out of the window especially if you’ve had a few drinks which these women probably had done.

Yes, which is why even more signs wont prevent this happening if people are drunk. The same way that people who drink and drive typically dont take notice of speed signs for example

There should be a comprehensive water safety programme in all schools. We are a small island, for heavens' sake. And we also have a lot of lakes and rivers.

There is. PE and PHSCE/RSE
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-physical-education-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-physical-education-programmes-of-study#swimming-and-water-safety

https://www.rlss.org.uk/news/new-dfe-rshe-statutory-guidance

We also include it when personalising the safeguarding information and learning, through assembly, visiting speakers etc.

Parents are responsible too for educating their children.

That second link is what I'm talking about!! This is brilliant news. I see that it only came about in July last year, so this school year will be the first year it's implemented, (assuming that schools got their act together quick enough to include it this academic year). I suppose it will take a cycle or two/three to start making a difference, but I am really glad to see this.

Brighton needs MUCH more signage about those steep shingle shelves. A PP said there were lots of signs, but another PP and I have never seen them, so they're clearly not effective, or need to be better.

I feel so bad that people came to our town for a nice time, and the council-made steepness of the beaches took their lives. 😭 They were our guests. The Argus said that the council is reviewing beach safety, so I really hope they invest in better warning signs.

They don't shift, because the council deposits all that shingle there on purpose as a sea defence. They top it up as and when.

Locals have recently described Brighton beach as a death trap. Not sure about that, but the huge shingle dumping from the council has made it less safe. There are also permanent rip tides around the pier, and the water at Black Rock is known as the washing machine due to the currents. It also has shore-dump waves created by those shingle shelves, which are very powerful. From AI summary: "They occur when a steep drop-off at the beach causes incoming waves to slow down rapidly, forcing them to pitch forward into a hollow, barreling shape that smashes directly onto the shore."

I don't know how BB ranks in terms of safety, but I would call it capricious, at the least. Gareth Jones also lost his life due to those shingle shelves. I don't know if you've ever scrambled up one, but I have done so when the tide was well out, after going down for a paddle in the afternoon. It's hard enough to get up them when you're not in the water, let alone when you are.

Without wishing to sound unduly harsh, is the sort or person that even considers going into a rough sea on a steep shingle beach in the dark when it’s cold and windy really going take any notice of even more signs? And where do you even put them in such a way that they’re not constantly moved or destroyed by the sea anyway?

Well, you can't not have signs because of that premise, can you. Anyway, the working theory is that they only went for a paddle, and also it would have been light, as it seems they went in after 5 a.m. Additionally, you cannot see that a shelf is there at high tide. You think you're calf-deep and suddenly you're out of your depth.

The signs can be replaced if they get battered. The bottom line is that people are losing their lives due to the steep shelving, so the council needs to do better. (Not just these three women, but Gareth Jones also came to grief that way, and he was both a local and an experienced, professional man.)

Gareth Jones died, IIRC, going in to the water at Hove to rescue his dog. It is of course speculation, but I imagine no matter how many warning signs existed he would still have entered the water to try and save his dog.

If the council tax payers of Brighton are happy to spend millions of pounds a year erecting and maintaining signs that are secure enough not to be affected by the shingle, winds and strong tides, placed frequently enough and at low and high tide points to actually even be noticed while at the same time not causing an additional danger to swimmers, paddle boarders and other craft that use the sea then great - let’s see what plan they come up with. But there are around 15kms of seafront between the marina and Shoreham Fort to cover...

To put the three deaths in context, 36 homeless people died on the streets of Brighton in both 2023 and 2024, and with no national press coverage to speak of. Eliminating those deaths, which I am sure will have far more complex causes than just an ill informed (or reckless, or stupid) decision to go into unknown water in bad weather at the crack of dawn would seem at least as worthy, but for some reason not as media friendly - presumably as it doesn’t drive clicks…

The only sustainable solution is education and publicity I think, and that’s down to parents and schools as well as the council.

I remember signing a petition for schools to implement water safety classes so I’m happy that has finally gone ahead.

It is a joint effort really. I’ve sent my DS on a water safety course done in a lake - it was really good. What to do if you fall in, breathing exercises. But also highlighting the dangers of cold water shock etc.

I think that’s all we can do - keep drumming this in to our kids and make sure they are strong swimmers (I know that doesn’t always help but it’s one thing we have control over).

My friends who live in Hove send their kids to life saving training in the sea all summer! I can see why if you live there - you know how dangerous it is and your teens will be basically having out on the beach all summer.

I think sadly it comes down to lack of education with visitors not from the area.

I’m pleased Brighton council will be looking at the safety signage though. Wondering if signs near to the clubs would’ be a good idea? So as you’re leaving. And maybe bouncers hovering around outside. It’s a tough one but do clubs on beaches have any responsibility to highlight the dangers an provide some safety signage?