To be confused by Keir Starmers speech already .

[pavillion1]

So he’s speaking to people like me talking about his brother and how his sister works in care and how unfairly she is treated .. Yet I’m am a carer and he has done sod all to help me apart from take more money .

I am quite real thanks.

The Jewish people who came here fleeing the pogroms in Russia from the 1880s to around 1910 didn't have jobs lined up and most of them didn't speak any English. They were allowed to find their own way and did so very successfully, from absolute slums in the East End to the suburbs in a generation, working, owning businesses, paying taxes.

Those people were at one time feared as people from the boats are now. Reform want people to think we're being swamped by alien cultures, they stoke fear as a vote winner. We're not. It should be made easier for people to work legally and pay tax, easier to have the means of learning English and yes, deal with the criminals.

I'm saying this as someone who is about as white 'Anglo Saxon' from a very long term English background as it is possible to be, got back nearly 1000 years on some lines (decades of family history as a hobby), certainly much more so than Farage (part Huguenot probably, refugees and certainly part German) RUK don't speak for me.

The disdainful and patronising reactions @pavillion1 is receiving is a brilliant example of why Reform wiped the floor with Labour. This version of the left cannot see how arrogant they have become - they know best at all times. Well, the red wall has said no. Instead of doubling down, maybe an attempt at understanding why the working class are clapping back against this would help the country get back on track. I did not vote Reform but I am a former solid Labour voter who no longer see them as my party.

I don't need to supply hard data. This isn't an academic paper, it's a discussion forum.

Delusional then. Or misinformed.

@chilling19 - pavillion1 started this thread to jeer at Keir Starmer and has been unable to back up many of the sound bite points they've attempted to make.

Been to Huddersfield lately ?

They’re just posting an opinion as you are.

No, but bought up in Smethwick in the 60s/70s, suggest a Google.

Neither. I simply have a different opinion. I really can't understand how that requires a rude comment from you.

Everyone has an opinion. The issues come when they are not based on facts.

And yet you were doing the same to me hours ago

Your argument lacks credibility, I’m afraid.

However, you know the direction of political travel - it was amply demonstrated last week. Meanwhile, the psychodrama that is Starmer’s demise mean that we currently lack an effective government.

Labour will be out for a multiple of 14 years after this fiasco.

As do Reform and their supporters. Lack credibility that is.

Please, do show me where I have made a rude comment to you. I am happy to own it if I have.

That said, I notice, when looking back through your posts, that you have told me to "deal with it", accused me of "throwing toys out the pram", used the term "likes of you" when talking to me and called me "entitled".

People in glass houses and all that....

Read your own comments

That’s over 3.8 million people you just treated with disrespect.

My argument doesn't lack credibility whatsoever - you just don't like it.

Unfortunately, I cannot disagree with any of the rest of your latest post. A leadership bunfight will do nothing but bring more uncertainty, instability and upheaval.

I just have thanks - every single one.

@pavillion1 you posted

No idea what he is talking about .. The last march that Tommy Robinson organised was absolutely respectful and trouble free . Certainly didn’t look to me like FAR right .. Just normal everyday working class people.

I posted (ignored by you) that 26 police officers were injured on that march, 4 seriously. This of course doesn't cover the vandalism at St Thomas's hospital, where barricades were torn down and the grounds invaded. As many involved were draped in England flags (I've seen a lot of footage) I very much doubt there is a convincing argument that these were counter demonstrators, unless Hope not Hate etc suddenly took to wearing the St George's Cross.

Nothing I have said is false

Not quite true, really.

I ignored it to be kind as the other protest marches from other organisations had far hugher levels of violence.. The one in September was on the most part trouble free ..,

The last march that Tommy Robinson organised was absolutely respectful and trouble free .

Is what you said. It wasn't, was it?

Own it.

ETA I've been on more protest marches than some people have had hot dinners. Sometimes both sides were scrapping with each other, but from everything I've seen, the real trouble that time was from the Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (convicted criminal) fans.

I’m happy to own it

Yet, as Uricon2 says, the march wasn't "absolutely respectful and trouble free"......

The numbers were a drop in the ocean to how many marched .