Uncomfortable situation involving adult child's partner

[TenTenTenAgain]

My adult son has been with his gf for 4 years. She is from another country and is here on a student visa. They live together.

I've met her 3 times in 4 years , she is always invited to family gatherings but frequently refuses for various reasons. I feel like I don't know her and only recently learned her real name , she uses an English name due to pronunciation issues. The last time I saw her she was very rude , she shamed my son and mocked him about his job. He works ft and earns an average wage for a young man of his age.

They've asked me to sign a letter stating that they live together as a married couple for her new visa , as she's no longer a student. And put pressure on me to do so within a few hours. I said that I needed more information and asked her some questions , the last one of which was about how she sees the future with my son. She didn't respond and apparently phoned my son shouting about me being rude and throwing accusations at her. She then blocked me on social media.

My son sent me an apology message , but said that the pair of them have lots to talk about because of what has happened.

I'm confused and concerned. Has anyone been in a similar situation and what did you do?

There must be a backstory involving your son here becsue even if you don’t see or talk to her often surely part of normal chat he would mention that she graduated and now does X/Y/Z.

All you had to do was to sign to say that they live together and are in a relationship (ie not just as mates). You don’t need to predict their future together. It feels like you had a bit of power and enjoyed holding it over her.

Do they "live together as a married couple" or not?
If they dont and you have been asked to lie by saying a letter thats worrying.
If they do and you dont want to sign the letter for your own reasons (you are entitled to) i can see why she/they may be offended.

This is a legal document. One's personal feelings on the subject are irrelevant. If they are living together as a married couple would - and according to you they are - then you should answer accordingly. Deal with your own feelings separately.

My understanding is that this letter isn't the most important thing but it does help paint the bigger picture of a relationship like pictures of a couple on holiday , message threads and tickets for exhibitions etc.

I wouldn’t sign for someone you barely know and met a few times.

I agreed to do something similar recently for my aunts husbands residency visa, but he visits us for several weeks for the last 25 years and we speak often.
It makes you very responsible for their entry into the country.
He has a temporary visa for 36 months and as I understand the law is currently changing which maybe why they are putting pressure on you.

Oh wow are you an immigration lawyer? I doubt it given your tenuous grasp on the difference in meaning even in ordinary English language between 'living as a married couple' and 'cohabiting' let alone a legal definition of what it means.

For anyone not in the know, student visas are a common route for migration to the UK. It’s a widely abused system.

The government asks for this information for a reason, and the GF will be well aware.

If the GF had become part of the family the OP would be able to say so. The GF is learning too late that she needs to put a bit more work in to get the status she’s after.

I’m sorry to hear this.

i think you did the right thing, and i hope you can talk to your son.

So she’s been in with the OP’s son for four years and the OP has only met her three times because she refuses to integrate with his family.

And now she expects the OP to essentially sign a letter saying they’re living together, essentially confirming that she is aware due to the relationship they all as a family have with one another.

Except they don’t have a relationship.

The OP knows nothing about this woman. And when asked if they’re living together as married the girl became defensive?

No I absolutely wouldn’t sign and she has a bloody nerve expecting the OP to do so.

And why do they need the OP to sign? If they’re living together as married they’ll be able to produce proof of joint assets surely? Rent/joint bank accounts/bills etc? So why can’t they?

She sounds dodgy as fuck and there’s not a chance I’d be putting my name to any visa application of someone I knew absolutely nothing about, regardless of whether she was in a relationship with my child.

If she turns out to be a fraud then the OP will be implicated.

The OP is essentially being expected to sign a document admitting to a relationship with someone which she doesn’t have.

That essentially amounts to fraud if it comes to the crunch.

If you have to affirm that she attends family gatherings and is treated as part of the family you clearly can't because she very rarely turns up for anything and you've only seen her 3 times in 4 years. Thinking about signing if she gave you a bit more information about herself and their relationship was pretty generous really, might be just as well that she got annoyed so you didn't get suckered into signing.

I don't see how it's none of her business when she's been asked to sign a document relating to exactly that.

I think this is a very reasonable perspective… and probably the right one. BUT I would also find it very very hard!!

I don’t think this is on you, OP. They should have done more to integrate with your family.
If they are Asian they may have been trying to avoid becoming the daughter in law who is culturally expected to looked after the new in-laws.
But there is nothing wrong with asking her about what her intentions are etc. I don’t understand why people have reacted so badly against that! Just because your child is an adult doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t have conversations about their future with them and the people around them. Your son and his GF are also adults and they should haveade more of an effort to cultivate a relationship with you especially if they needed your help.

Was your chat with her by text?
And what did she do to mock your son re his job? I wouldn’t be happy with this myself.

I guess if she's been a student he pays for everything so there will be no joint finances to prove the relationship is more than bf/gf. Which maybe it isn't, it may just be a very convenient arrangement for her to live free and now get another visa.

I wouldn't sign something like this for someone I have met 3 times regardless of whether she was my son’s girlfriend.
she has had ample opportunity to integrate when he visits monthly

I don’t know the rules about visas, but is that the case? If she obtained her visa and then she and your son broke up the next day, what would happen about her visa (if anything)?

She sounds rude and difficult, but unless her remaining in the UK is dependent on her remaining with your son, I can see why she would feel you shouldn’t have been asking her questions like that.

I suggest you try to have a heart-to-heart with your son, explain that you are just concerned about him because of the way she treats him and her lack of engagement with his family, and see what he says.

Not necessarily. International student fees are significantly higher than for domestic students - double at least, with no access to loans or grants, and it is often only he wealthiest families who can afford them. My point is that you have no idea what her financial situation is. I think you should be honest with your son and say that you don't want to type the letter and why. However, I also think that you are focusing on her, when the issue is with your DS. He is the one who is not telling you anything about her, chose to prioritise her feelings over a bad essay grade than go to his own brothers birthday, and is not telling you about their relationship. He's the one that you should have asked where the relationship is going, not her. If you don't want to do it, that's fine, but looks like its easier for you to direct you feelings towards her instead of dealing with the real issue.

I think you should have written your own letter, saying she’s his partner (as you say in the title) that they’ve lived together for 4 years and you always invite her to family events.

Honest, accurate, and she can’t argue with it.

How did they meet?

How rude for them not to try and socialise with you regularly.

She shouted at him because you asked her questions? Which country is she from? Sounds dramatic. With your ex partner's history, maybe your son is also in a coercive relationship.

Do not sign the letter.

Tell them that you barely know her and can't possibly sign something like that. They're on their own.

What an unpleasant young woman this is. And pretty nifty too, securing a partner with an income while she studies, clever.

Did they meet online? Is your son a bit naive? Did she meet your son online before coming to the UK? How soon after arriving here and studying did the meet? What did she study?

I'd love to know what nationality this crafty woman is.

They can both do one.

Your question wasn't unreasonable. You're being asked to confirm that they are living as a married couple so it's not unreasonable to try to establish if that's how they see themselves.

There are definitely some red flags in this relationship. I would share your concern for him.

I think it speaks volumes about your relationship with your son that he has given you so little information about her. That would be my worry. Why he hasn’t told me such basic stuff like what her actual name is?

No, she will have been entitled to a student maintenance loan. She will have her own money via the SLC.

Sorry meant to also tag the following poster and now can’t!

Believe me when I say that I'm aware that my son isn't perfect! That's for another thread perhaps. But I do feel that he is potentially in an abusive relationship with this young woman and that she has an entitled attitude wrt this letter and her visa application support.

Have you been to their home OP? Are there indicators of theor relationship there like photos of them together or souvenirs from holidays?

It's open to interpretation isn't it?
I mean, they could live together like an unhappily married couple who don'tintendto change. Still a couple.
Some have separate bedrooms, different hobbies and friends but still close strong marriages.

Would your son be suprised to realise how infrequently you have met her? Time can just pass and you don't always take stock of things like that.

I agree that a factual letter is the best you can do - they have lived together since X date, been on holiday / day out, came to X family event. I'm guessing you won't know if they have a joint bank account / went sofa shopping together / book back to back dentist appointments/ share a supermarket loyalty card and all those mundane things couples might do. Did they chose the home together? You can only put what you know, if you do it at all.