Uncomfortable situation involving adult child's partner

[TenTenTenAgain]

My adult son has been with his gf for 4 years. She is from another country and is here on a student visa. They live together.

I've met her 3 times in 4 years , she is always invited to family gatherings but frequently refuses for various reasons. I feel like I don't know her and only recently learned her real name , she uses an English name due to pronunciation issues. The last time I saw her she was very rude , she shamed my son and mocked him about his job. He works ft and earns an average wage for a young man of his age.

They've asked me to sign a letter stating that they live together as a married couple for her new visa , as she's no longer a student. And put pressure on me to do so within a few hours. I said that I needed more information and asked her some questions , the last one of which was about how she sees the future with my son. She didn't respond and apparently phoned my son shouting about me being rude and throwing accusations at her. She then blocked me on social media.

My son sent me an apology message , but said that the pair of them have lots to talk about because of what has happened.

I'm confused and concerned. Has anyone been in a similar situation and what did you do?

So you missed the update that the letter they drafted for OP to sign wasn’t truthful ?

It's apples and oranges, you're talking about purposely making a fraudulent claim, I'm talking about a relative being asked to confirm something as evidence in an application and it was in response to the PP who said flatmates are the same as 'living like a married couple'.

No one would think or assume that flatmates were living like a married couple, and they certainly wouldn't attest to it on an official document UNLESS THEY WERE MAKING A FRAUDULENT CLAIM.

I assumed the last part went without saying, seeing as the issue OP has posted about has nothing to do with fraud.

What came across to me, is how eager some MNers are to vilify/assume the worst of any MiL or possibly future MiL.

It’s hardly unknown for would-be legal residents of the U.K. to use gullible or naive partners to help them achieve that status. After which the naive/gullible one will probably be ditched.

But OP knows her own son and that he is living with the GF as his romantic partner/as if married. That's all she was asked to sign for.

GF's rudeness through the years is neither here nor there, and OP clearly took this opportunity to get across her misgivings about this woman, which was not helpful and will not help with their relationship going forward.

OP added that part as an update later, strange she didn't mention it in the OP really, but either way she could have just asked that part to be removed/amended before she was signed it, her son's partner didn't take offence until she questioned her on her intentions towards her son (which is irrelevant to what she is being asked to do.)

That's a completely different issue to the question in the OP which was 'are they living as a married couple' not 'are they married'

The son and his gf asking the OP to lie was drip fed later and not in the original post. This changes things a bit.

So you're being asked to lie to get this girl a visa when she makes no effort to interact with the family, is rude and mocks your son!
I suspect that when she gets her visa, she won't be sticking around. Maybe you should speak to your son about some concerns.

Having had a quick look, the visa for unmarried partners process is vast, complicated and expensive, it delves into every single part of their life together and the onus is on them to prove that they are in a committed relationship. Her son has chosen to embark upon it, it is not fair of the OP to try and put the brakes on it because she doesn't 'like' his partner.

If she had genuine concerns about status that would be different, but using this application as an opportunity to question the woman's intentions instead of having a proper conversation with her son (or both of them together) was out of line IMO, and I'm not surprised she has reacted badly, they've been living together for 4 years!

The family letter evidence seems to only be supplementary, rather than pertinent to the visa application which is VERY thorough, so it seems petty to question motives then refuse sign it IMO, all she was asked is if they have been in a relationship and living together 'like a married couple would' for 4 years.. which they have!

So it is the son's call to deal with this himself. If he wants the woman for real, marry her. Having her here without a marriage and protection just for the sex is not good thing, he is not a good person either, despite everyone thrashing the girl

Uh huh
"I would have agreed to put that in a letter if she hadn't reacted the way she did"

All OP had to do was ask to modify the letter to include they have been going out for 4 years and they live in a flat together. She didn't though, she made signing the immigration letter contingent on a "and what are your intentions with my son?" conversation.

Controlling and a bit sinister tbh.

I don’t think you did anything wrong. ‘As a married couple’ kind of means that they have a joint tenancy if they are renting, have shared finances, she is on the council tax/utility bills. This might include a shared bank account for those bills where monies from student loans/earning etc are pooled for shared expenses.

Ie they are sharing all the social and legal aspects of a committed relationship. That usually also involves engaging with family of your partner - and as a foreign visitor on a student visa, I would infer an interest to engage with my DS’s family as evidence of wanting to be a part of his culture and society. That she has refused raises flags for me, I am afraid.

I also assume he may have been in student halls and digs for a large part of the last 4 years during which they have both been students, which means that no, they have not been living together as ‘married’ - but might be labelled a young student couple, at least until the last year or so. The same applies if only she was a student and has been living in his rented home, subsidised by his earnings while she studies.

I would guess that the Home Office would draw similar inferences. I worry that, given she has a history of being abusive (mocking DS and towards you, OP), that she has an agenda which does not prioritise your DS.

Yes, and presumably OP is concerned she could get questioned in the future, and maybe even charged if she was found guilty of misrepresenting things-I would always check when signing things because "as a married couple" should suggest at least an intention of permanence.
And she sounds rude and abusive. If my daughter/son gets a partner like this when they grow up, I would be concerned-trying to push or blackmail someone into doing something for you immediately is not ok.

OP you were way out of line. they just needed you to vouch for the fact they were in a genuine long term relationship, which you knew full well that they are, and you went on a power trip.

you owe her a big apology.

edit: unless i misunderstood and they were asking you to pretend they are married when they aren’t.

People (esp young people) can have long-term relationships without marrying. It doesn't make someone a bad person for not marrying, nor does it make them just in it for the sex. Unless you think people should marry because their girlfriend needs a visa, whether they feel ready to marry or not?

I think you should sign their letter because if you don’t they will fall out with you and not signing it won’t stop her getting a visa.

Yes it's a different issue, but not an irrelevant one. Assuming the wording on the form was accurate as the OP describes it, then I am staggered that simply living with a British partner is a good enough reason to be granted another visa once your student visa has expired.

I think I understand your fear Op !
Carry on and do what your gut is telling u and just keep that door wide open for when your son needs you ❤️ if u feel like it's not correct then do not sign because u could end up in trouble if you get caught up in it x

So the truth is irrelevant? You'd put your name to anything?

If I were you OP I'd really worried about your son.
How many of the people replying to this thread actually read what the OP has written in their first post ?

@TenTenTenAgain I would have just signed the letter.

It's factually true that they live together like a married couple.

And I would have done it for my son's sake regardless of what I thought about his girlfriend who does sound awful.

Agree, but neither do I think that a visa should be provided simply as a result of living with someone for a couple of years.

Honestly sometimes I wonder about the respondents on this site. If this were the opposite way round, people would be saying this situation was possibly coercive control.

It appears she's manipulating him and given the OP's son's early years history he would be more open to abuse.

I too would be worried about his welfare OP and wouldn't be signing anything until when, and if, the young lady came to have an open conversation with you.

OP updated to say that they drafted the letter for her to sign and a lot of the content simply wasn’t true.

Stick with your gut instinct. I have seen a family seriously damaged when they tried to accommodate their DS partner’s controlling behaviour. Anytime she didn’t get what she wanted she threw a temper tantrum/hysterics. It was messy and damaging for all of them. You can still be open to a relationship with them, even if it’s a bit distant, but don’t be manipulated into doing something you’re not comfortable doing.

‘As a married couple’ kind of means that they have a joint tenancy if they are renting, have shared finances, she is on the council tax/utility bills. This might include a shared bank account for those bills where monies from student loans/earning etc are pooled for shared expenses.

They have to prove all that independently with real evidence and documentation.. visa's aren't granted on your mum's say so, they are only granted if you can PROVE the facts.

Writing a letter is just a supporting document to say they are in a relationship while living together and they have been for the last 4 years, that is all OP was asked to do, anything she didn't agree with could have been ironed out before signing, but questioning the future of their relationship, and intentions of the partner, has nothing to do with what she was being asked to do.