Uncomfortable situation involving adult child's partner

[TenTenTenAgain]

My adult son has been with his gf for 4 years. She is from another country and is here on a student visa. They live together.

I've met her 3 times in 4 years , she is always invited to family gatherings but frequently refuses for various reasons. I feel like I don't know her and only recently learned her real name , she uses an English name due to pronunciation issues. The last time I saw her she was very rude , she shamed my son and mocked him about his job. He works ft and earns an average wage for a young man of his age.

They've asked me to sign a letter stating that they live together as a married couple for her new visa , as she's no longer a student. And put pressure on me to do so within a few hours. I said that I needed more information and asked her some questions , the last one of which was about how she sees the future with my son. She didn't respond and apparently phoned my son shouting about me being rude and throwing accusations at her. She then blocked me on social media.

My son sent me an apology message , but said that the pair of them have lots to talk about because of what has happened.

I'm confused and concerned. Has anyone been in a similar situation and what did you do?

It’s not xenophobia. Just so you know I am not white British, I am Asian. There have been sham marriages for visa. You sound naive.

But she is not married, so she will be lying to authorities.

Sometimes future intentions are being kept hidden. We have had this happen in our family. Better to know sooner rather than too late, that can cause enormous upset.

Sounds very much like the daughter of a person I know who's using her BF to stay in the country...FWIW I don't think you are being unreasonable, you are entitled to speak to the person you are essentially providing a reference for. She's been outed and she's reacted in a way to take attention away from that.

In the context of dependant visa, living like married couple has to be married or civil partnership. So what you are interpreting has no use for visa and they have asked op to sign the letter for visa purpose.

It’s interesting that if a woman posts about difficulty with her MIL, DM, husband or partner it’s rarely pointed out that we have one side of the story but it’s frequently stated if a man or older woman posts.
OP- I wouldn’t have just signed something that was written out for me, I would have written something neutral that said I was aware that X had been living as a partner with your son for 4 years and I had met her on five occasions.
I know that would probably have left you in the same situation you are in now.
I would also be concerned about my son. If he’s amenable I would try to see him on his own and talk about it properly. Avoid strong criticism of his girlfriend but ask if he’s happy as you noticed she was very short with him when you saw them. Tell him you want to be supportive but you’re not prepared to lie or exaggerate.

I would not put my name to any document unless I was absolutely certain that it was true. Asking questions was, in my view, completely acceptable. The fact that she got angry seems a red flag to me.

Who said she needs to know how often they have sex? No one is going to ask that, don't worry 👍🏻

She can't just say they live together and are a couple because that wouldn't be enough to satisfy the legal process anyway.

It's evidence from a whole shared life together they need.

I can't remember what evidence my brother and his now wife had to provide as it was a long time ago now but I know it was numerous and extensive and them just sharing a tenancy and saying they were a couple didn't even scratch the surface! That was the starting point. Not the proof.

I said that I needed more information and asked her some questions , the last one of which was about how she sees the future with my son.

That has absolutely no bearing on whether they are living together 'like' a married couple now though? Why not just stick to the facts?

If they've been living together 4 years then they are very much living like a married couple. If there was something factually incorrect you could have asked for it to be removed before you signed it, you obviously didn't want to sign it and now you aren't going to.

Surely it’s illegal to sign a drafted letter for this?
Especially as you don’t even know this person & frankly cannot even be certain the son actually does live with this unknown person?
out of interest, soz if this has already been answered; what country is the female from?

Then why say as a married couple. Why not live together as a couple. They are not married.

so you are not signing the letter based on the fact you think she dislikes you, not on the factual reality you know she has been with your son whole 4 years ...

This sounds like a spouse visa from how you describe it. Did you miss the wedding or if it's a fiance visa, are you invited to the wedding?

If they've been living together 4 years then they are very much living like a married couple.

My son and his flatmate have been living together for 3 years. They have a joint tenancy and share the bills.

Are they living like a married couple? Of course not.

He had a female flatmate before. They did similar, shared the cooking and household chores etc 'as a married couple' would. I probably met her 3 or 4 times too but she didn't come along to any family events (even though she was sometimes invited as her own family wasn't local).

In some people's minds it would appear that they were also 'living together as a married couple'.

That's the crux of it really.

The OP would be breaking the law if she knowingly lied.

Are you sure? Surely if that was the case they would just ask the couple to give evidence that they are married or in a civil partnership.

I don't think YABU to have asked the question at all, but I think you asked it of the wrong person.
Given it's been 4 years I would have had a conversation with my son about the lack of apparent interest on her part to get to know her partner's family (giving you the benefit of the doubt on your side of the story) - what he thinks is behind that and how he feels about it. Perhaps even what else you could possibly do to help.

That said, I wouldn't have signed a letter which stated things I either knew to be untrue or has no idea whether they were true or not.

I'm reading "living together as a married couple" to mean they live together in a partnership rather than as flatmates or in a Lodger/landlord situation.

I do think you've made it all a but of a drama OP, they weren't asking you to do anything dodgy, as far as you know they are living together in a romantic partnership and they needed a witness to that. By asking all these probing questions you're acting as if your sons girlfriend is out to deceive him in some way. I can see why she would be upset, especially as now her visa could be in jeopardy, it must be an extremely stressful time for both her and your son and you've just made it worse for no reason.

What an obtuse response.

From the FIRST LINE of the OP:

My adult son has been with his gf for 4 years.

They aren't flatmates, like both of your examples. OP herself says they are in a relationship and have been living together for 4 years.

No one would think or assume that flatmates were living like a married couple, and they certainly wouldn't attest to it on an official document.

No one would think or assume that flatmates were living like a married couple, and they certainly wouldn't attest to it on an official document.

Show me you've never worked in a job where establishing a claimant's relationship status is relevant without telling me so.

You are so very wrong.

There’s more to that, though. There’s

• living together - lots of people, especially young people, do this, for many reasons and don’t see the arrangement as permanent
• living together because married
• and there’s living together as a married couple.

it seems reasonable to me that living together as a married couple means an intention for this to be permanent. Possibly the OP should have phrased it differently, but as it was the gf’s visa she was being asked to sign, it’s understandable that she asked the gf. The gf could just have said “yes” or “I hope so”. There was no reason to shout and be rude.

You said yourself you can’t answer the questions so you can’t sign the legal document.

Your son’s GF has no interest in getting to know your family but is desperate for you to sign the documents. You asked her a question and she tried to make out to your son you were being difficult and a bitch to her.

I would tell your son you won’t sign any legal document that you cant answer truthfully. You’ve met her three times in four years and hardly know her at all. You don’t need to apologise for stating the truth!

I would look up Covert Narcissism, I think it will explain your son’s relationship. You can’t do anything to shield him from her as you will play right into her hands. You have to shield yourself from her twisting the truth and don’t sign the document because you don’t want your son to suffer if she doesn’t get her own way. Your son has to realise for himself what she is really like without you trying to help him as she will make out you are shit stirring!

Sorry OP but asking this question after 4 years together was incredibly rude and I can see why GF was annoyed and upset by it.

I appreciate she hasn't been particularly friendly or embraced your family over those years, but it seems like your seized your chance to throw your weight around a bit here and it's backfired.

She doesn't owe you any kind of justification of her relationship with your son, you know very well they are living together as a couple so you could have just signed it.

I think she's after indefinite leave to remain. She will need to reside in the uk for at least five years to apply for this. She will either need to have a good job in a field that has a shortage of qualified workers in the UK or be married to someone with UK nationality.

TBH, all those dragging OP because they think she is trying to split them up aren’t really thinking about the real problem: how can you verify anything about a person if they have never got to know you? I mean, met 3 times in 4 years isn’t really enough to sign an official document to enable a Visa, is it?

YANBU for not signing. If she knew that she needed someone to vouch for her for her Visa extension, surely she could have made an effort to get to know you.

I reckon if she’s as rude to everyone else as she is to you, you’re probably her last viable option and that’s why she is being nasty about it!