Parents expect visits but won't offer help with childcare - fair?

[OlliEliza]

My parents live very close to us (less than a mile away), and I’ve always felt we had a good relationship. They’ve always enjoyed spending time with me and my sister since we moved out. They don’t have many friends, and I’d say they rely on us quite a lot – we often take them on holiday, buy tickets for them, help them sort things out, and they call me several times a day.

I have a two-year-old daughter. They love her, but they don’t offer any help with her. They expect me to visit them regularly because they’re used to seeing us. Usually, when we visit, they enjoy her company for a while, but by the end they’re tired and want to go back to their usual routine.

It feels like they want constant access to my child without taking on any responsibility for her ,things like dealing with tantrums, feeding her, or taking her to the playground, and I still have to organise everything for them as their daughter. Sometimes they come over to ours, but it’s the same situation – they’re more like guests.

My dad often says they’ve already raised me and my sister and don’t want to get involved again. They can help if I ask, but they never offer it themselves. And when they have babysat, my dad has seemed annoyed, and neither of them appears particularly happy, which makes me uncomfortable asking again.

My husband and I are constantly exhausted from everyday life – work, chores, and looking after a toddler. I honestly can’t remember the last time we spent proper time together as a couple – going out for a meal feels like a distant dream. I do love my parents, and I understand they don’t have to help with childcare if they don’t want to, but I do feel frustrated that we see each other so often and yet I never get a proper break, or even the chance to have a lie-in now and then (my daughter wakes us at the crack of dawn).AIBU to be annoyed about it?

She does a lot more than booking tickets. Several visits a week and several phone calls a day.

The entitlement to adult daughters’ time and efforts on this thread is extreme. Men aren’t expected to do so much.

How do you have perfect English but they have none? You must have lived in different countries for a long time for that to come about. Did they only move to England just as your toddler was born?

They also might want to think of the message they're sending their own daughter on how she might treat them in old age.
I think it might send a good message to her daughter on 'don't be a doormat'. Also it seems to be a uniquely boomer thing to feel that entitled to everyone's time and effort with no return so she's unlikely to act the same way as her parents do towards her own daughter or to have the same expectations.

@OlliEliza I haven't RTFT completely but am wondering if not speaking English makes them less confident?
Maybe the responsibility feels too much?
I would never want someone who doesn't feel up to it to watch my DC.

Also if they are tired after a visit I think maybe you need to realise it is just not for them. And that has to be ok.

Can you ask directly for small bits of help?

Maybe babysit at yours when the kids are in bed to start and you and DH go to the cinema or something for a change of scene? Help build their confidence?

But you should not be depriving your parents and your DC of their relationship because of childcare!!! Maybe as DC gets older it might also feel easier.

But if they aren't up to it then they aren't!!

Well she can step back then, they don’t owe her childcare

Step back as PPs have said. Use your energy for yourself and your family, with them if you have any left. Rather than prioritising them.

Fwiw, I think yanbu. Mumsnet always trots out grandparents not owing childcare but youre a close family who see each other regularly so I think its strange that they dont see your struggles and help now and then. Even more so that they knowingly add to your burden!

I think cultural expectations are at play here a bit too though and you are going to get the advice of mostly white British women who dont know your culture, the expectations that you and your parents have been raised with and how making changes will be received. Not to say you cant make a change, but maybe you will have to approach it carefully.

You are not being unreasonable to want some support from your parents, and I don't understand how many on here are saying otherwise. Whilst neither my parents or inlaws provided regular childcare, they were there in emergencies or for babysitting, and my inlaws looked after my children if dh and I wanted a weekend away. I remember on more than a few occasions being able to have a much needed sleep in the afternoon when visiting them, as they minded my children. They would have been in their 60s, and to an extent the support was in our direction and very much appreciated. The support went in their direction when they became frail.

Where have I said they owe her childcare?

Equally she doesn’t owe them the several visits per week and severely phone calls a day. Funny how you don’t comment on her not owing that, eh?

What is the message she should be teaching her dd? That absolutely exhaust yourself by acceding to parents demands for several visits a per week and several phone calls per day?

I assume they hope that they've raised their daughter to be kind and helpful. Their time for imparting messages to their daughter is done. She's grown. She's formed. If she's formed with a tit for tat mindset then I'm sure they'll find that out soon enough and they can mull over why that is then.

It would be a shame to cut off all support for elderly parents because they don't feel up to being in sole charge of a toddler, but the OP is free to do that as you quite rightly pointed out. No obligation. It will of course reflect on who she is as a person. Like your comments here reflect on you.

That’s why many women are in this mess, because they’re taught from a young age that it’s their job to be ‘kind and helpful’, meaning they bear the brunt of elder care. The majority of carers are women.

OP is exhausted and all you’re worried about is that she be kind and helpful, zero concern about how the several visits per week and all the care must be taking a toll on her.

You are utterly unreasonable. Your parents are being grandparents - they are not the parents!! As you say they are tired by the end of a visit with her in your care, how exhausted would they be re sole care?! When she is older and less exhausting you may be able to leave her with them a little - if they so choose. You chose to have a child, YOU parent it. And I say this as someone who lives a quarter of a mile from their DM, I have always helped her whenever asked and visit regularly….she had my 14 & 16 YEAR(!) olds to stay a night for the first time ever last year… it’s never been her job to be a nanny to my children.

It's funny how it only goes one way with you isn't it? It's unlikely that they've only just become this entitled they've probably been demonstrating this selfishness their whole lives so why should op step up? Do they deserve it?

This reflects nothing on me other than I hate injustice. Your posts seem to reflect your own entitlement.
If you want to know, my parents were too old and ill to offer childcare by the time I had kids. I still cared for them in old age though, because they were not selfish entitled people and they deserved it. From what we see here, op's parents do not.

YABU to expect nights out and lie ins - I think that most of us didn’t get that & would only ask for help for something like a big occasion (40th, wedding etc). Otherwise you tag team. Sort it out with your sister & help each other out.

YANBU to not want daily phone calls asking for help & to feel obligated to take them on holiday.

Why are they not learning any English? What has prompted them to come here? I think they need to learn the language so they can be more integrated & also manage their own lives.

So here you have two separate issues that bump into one another.
The first is how dependent your parents seem to be on you and your sister. I'm thinking this is cultural, but not necessarily. Can you encourage them to make their own network of people and to learn some English? Also get them set up with translation apps so they become more independent?
I would be reducing your availability. Don't take the phone calls as often. My parents, who are as English as you can get, used to do this with me. They didn't see that I had my own life and work etc. Try to train them out of expecting you to drop everything for them. Decide what's realistic and draw those boundaries.
The second issue is around how active they want to be as grandparents. You can't force them to do more than they want to, so find reliable alternatives. Reduce the visit times as a lively toddler could be exhausting for them - even if they are in their 50s or 60s - if you're not used to it 24/7 it's a lot!

No one is saying “cut off all support” but the level that the parents/dad seem to be demanding is incompatible with OP’s commitments to her own child, husband and life.

To me the two things are completely separate:

1. how much time you see your parents. Either you enjoy seeing them or actually it's a faff, if its the latter, just pare it back a bit. "Sorry mum, we can't come on Saturday afternoon we've got other plans".

2. Expectation of childcare - you cannot have kids and assume other people will give you a free break from them. If you need a babysitter, book and pay for one. You only have one DC, there should be times when you get a break & your DH is with DC, and vice versa.

YABU

That’s very much oversimplifying the situation. Op is understandably conflating the two things , who wouldn’t.

Oh and if they are living here, they need to learn English. Unless you live in Wales and they speak Welsh or something in which case they do speak a local language.

Help them to find some classes & get them signed up.

"Help out where you can"?

This thread has made me so sad. What happened to having a village. Yes OP the child is your responsibility. But the responses here make it clear that modern society in this country is about each man for himself. There is nothing wrong with helping each other out occassionally. OP is not asking for everyday childcare and YANBU to expect once in a while for grandparents to babysit. Sadly these are the same parents who will expect their kids when they are elderly to drop everything for them. Its very selfish.

Its one thing to expect daily childcare from Grandparents and another occassional childcare for a few hours unless they are disabled. OP you need to stop doing so much for them. If they cant be bothered to help you out as a family then dont bother either. These things go both ways.

The current generation of grandparents is all about them and the consequences of that will become clear in the next 20 years as they grow older.

I don't know if they deserve her help. I don't know if I've missed a post from the OP, but I haven't seen her comment on what they were like when she was growing up. I've taken my view based on the information in the OP i.e. she spends a lot of time with them and wants them to look after her daughter. I don't think you'd do/want either of those things if they were historically bad people. You wouldn't want awful people caring for your DC would you?!

I don't feel entitled to demand that my parents care for my children. I would have thought that was obvious from my posts.

I don't know if YABU or not. I can't decide.

Because it feels like you are doing a lot of 'raising' of your parents too. If they don't speak English, I can see that you probably DO spend a lot of time managing admin for them. No doubt willingly. But I think I'd be frustrated too if they spent 20 years raising you, and you have to spend the next 40 doing loads for them that they don't reciprocate because they've 'done their job'. I would hate having to holiday with my parents every single year, and effectively take responsibility for their needs and happiness on the holiday because of language barriers, and dealing with all the everyday domestic stuff that requires good English is also a fair amount, I'd imagine.

Life isn't a balance sheet. But you'd think they would recognise that good relationships are built on give and take. I also wonder whether it's because you're a woman. Would your parents expect the same level of everyday support from you if you were a man? Do they hold very traditional views about the role of women?

So I don't think YABU.

But at the same time, if you don't get a lie in, that's between you and your husband. If they don't take responsibility for your child, it's because it's your child, not theirs. YABU to expect them to equally parent your child.